ATDDTA (8) Towers of Silence (209:26)

[Joseph T]

On May 2, 2007, at 8:34 PM, Joseph T wrote:

> There's a lot going on here and part of the purpose as I see it is  
> to show the descent into hell of  Bush/Dobson/ dominionist/imperial/ 
> post -constantine Christianity and some of the reasons for that  
> descent.  He's laying it on pretty thick here. Webb is being  
> murdered at the orders of the calvinist fanatic Vibe, with the  
> apparent approval of the Governor of Jeshimon ( a clear stand -in  
> for GWB as gov of Texas) in the violent edges  of the Empire which  
> considering the language about attracting evildoers sounds like a  
> reference to Iraq. The reps of the church are in a macabre  
> collusion with the machinery of death.
>
> In the real world this same theology has risen to dominate American  
> policy and a major source of that theology is this apocalyptic  
> vision with roots in Zoroastrianism, Chosen People ism, nationalism  
> and racism.
> On May 2, 2007, at 3:19 PM, David Morris wrote:
>
>> On 5/2/07, Joseph T <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>>> I have a different theory on the Zoroastrian reference. The  
>>> entire section takes  the form of  a crucifixion scene with  
>>> several Christian references including mocking reference to  
>>> resurrection. I think the Zoroastrian reference is trying  to  
>>> show the strong influence of Zoroastrian ideas on Jews of the  
>>> Christian era and early Christians.
>>
>> OK, but why would that be of concern in AtD?  -- and I know you  
>> try to
>> answer that question below --
>>
>>> Judaism has very little to say about an afterlife. And the idea  
>>> of a cosmic battle between good and evil , light and dark was a  
>>> late blooming development, clearly borrowed from Zoroastrians and  
>>> reaching its apex near the time of Christ with cults of  
>>> armageddon and resurrection, and  dreams of the rebirth of the  
>>> Davidic Dynasty.
>>>
>>> Christianity borrows a lot of this Zoroastrian imagery and  
>>> language (especially John's Gospel)in the  image of final cosmic  
>>> battles and Christ as the "light of the world".
>>
>> Your answer:
>>> So to me this is one of many ways the author invests this  
>>> formative event in the life of the Traverses with the kind of  
>>> eclectic gathering of forces that the questions of death and  
>>> meaning seem to generate. Through it we also revisit the  
>>> complexity of forces which played out in the focal event of   
>>> Christianity.
>>
>> OK, eclectic life & death rituals and philosophies.  But, again, just
>> a grab bag?  Or Pynchon's wanting to impart a bit of religious
>> trivia/history?
>>
>>> It also reminds of the Roman use of crucifixion to subdue local  
>>> resistance.
>>
>> Yes, and that seems the real purpose of this episode.
>>
>> But why throw in the comparative religious stuff (which is  
>> interesting
>> to know, thank you)?  As Robin points out, we are being given a tour
>> of Hell, and all scary effects are welcome.  But for Pynchon to
>> specifically say that the towers will be "quickly identified by
>> sophisticated world travelers," rather than letting the reference
>> remain obscure, makes me think he was doing more than just  
>> layering on
>> cultural/religious historical differences.
>>
>> David Morris
>

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