ATDTDA (17): liberal causes + the Church

[Michael Lee Bailey]

on a historical-novel level, that surely holds true

it might be too dogmatically allegorical to
set the wagon that Jephthah sometimes isn't using 
equal to the social-justice program of the new testament
(book of James, beatitudes) which loses its primacy
in churches as they perforce accommodate the ruling classes,
at first to avoid being crushed, then out of habit,
and finally by preference, having been assimilated
and killed (faith without works is dead - James) - but 
religion is about revival..

-- and it would a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy
to say that 
just because the abnegation of worldly values
(capitalism and statism) church-style ("my kingdom is
not of this world" "the kingdom of heaven is within"
"sooner shall a camel go through the
eye of a needle than a rich man into heaven")
preceded that of the anarchist movement,
therefore it caused or inspired it -

but it's tempting to think so,
in which case, the quasi-religious appeal of
the anarchist movement becomes easily explicable
since it scoops out the sweet heart of the religious message 
- liberty - 
like a person eating a watermelon alone ---
forgetting the less sweet but still nourishing
parts about self-control, love, etc...



without claiming exclusivity, I still think
something of that nature 
may be lurking in the passage

> -----Original Message-----
> From: kelber at mindspring.com [mailto:kelber at mindspring.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2007 05:35 PM
> To: pynchon-l at waste.org
> Subject: Re: ATDTDA (17): liberal causes + the Church
>
> This episode seemed more about labor-contracting -- anarchists and christers trying to outbid each other on workers for their respective causes -- than about relgious support of lefty politics (which certainly has a long, rich history).
>
> Laura
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: robinlandseadel at comcast.net
>
> >
> > Tim Strzechowski:
> > But wouldn't support of liberalism and radicalism be,
> > in effect, a direct threat to the tradition that is at the heart
> > of the Church's belief system?
> >
> > Can you give an example of what you mean here?
> >
> > Michael Lee Bailey:
> > To the extent that the church is a physical and
> > financial institution, it's subject to the same
> > tendencies to abuse power as business and
> > government. But to the extent that it's a
> > repository of utopian thought, it's among the
> > sources of progress. (business and govern-
> > ment have redeeming qualities, too, of course)
> >
> >At the bottom of it all, there's some serious satire going on here, and just
> >about everywhere Our Beloved Author quotes (or takes a carom shot off
> >of) scripture. The astonishingly vast landscape of "Non-Scheduled
> >Theologies" on view in Against the Day reminds me of Joseph Campbell or
> >Finnegans Wake and it should come as no surprise that OBA would be
> >cognizant of some of the more heretical studies of early Christianity.
> >
> >http://waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l&month=0703&msg=116746&keywords=cynics
> >
> >Burton L. Mack, in "The Christian Myth [Origins, Logic and Legacy]" devotes
> >an entire chapter to "The Case for a Cynic-like Jesus". Listing a long string of
> >"Q"* aphorisms---Bless those who curse you, Carry no money, bag or sandals,
> >Sell your possessions and give alms u.s.w.---Mack notes:
> >
> > The public arena is the place of accidental encounter with
> > people who are living by traditional rules. The behavior
> > enjoined is risky, but possible. And there is more than a hint
> > of social critique or countercultural life-style. The advice is
> > to be cautious, but also courageous. . . .
> >
> >"Keep cool, but care"
> >
> > One should not respond in kind, but take reproach in stride and
> > with confidence that one is right. If the maxims cited above are
> > read in the context of these instructions, a corpus of sayings
> > begins to emerge that exhibits a distinctly Cynic flavor. Now,
> > by expanding the data base to look for themes that recur
> > throughout Q1, the recommended way of life takes on a profile
> > that is clearly comparable to popular Cynicism. . . .
> > Burton L. Mack: The Christian Myth, pp. 44/45
> >
> >Earl Doherty goes a bit further, eliminating any vestige of a historical Jesus
> >in favor of pure Cynic tale-spinning, aphoristic Lord Buckley jive:
> >
> > THE JESUS PUZZLE: Was There No Historical Jesus?
> > by Earl Doherty
> >
> > [a review of WHO WROTE THE NEW TESTAMENT?
> > The Making of the Christian Myth
> > by Burton L. Mack]
> >
> > This “authentic” layer bears such a striking resemblance to the style and
> > content of the preaching of wandering Cynics of the time, that Mack (and
> > others) have been forced to describe Jesus as a ‘Cynic-style sage’ who
> > had little concern for things Jewish, since none of his ‘teachings’ show
> > any focus on Jewish issues or institutions. This characterization of Jesus
> > as Cynic is perhaps more clearly stated in earlier publications by Mack,
> > though in the present book he says that “It does appear that Jesus was
> > attracted to this popular (ie, Cynic) ethical philosophy,” and he refers to
> > the “Cynic-like challenge in the teachings of Jesus” (p.40). Mack declares
> > (p.47) that “(earliest) Q puts us as close to the historical Jesus as we
> > will ever be.”
> >
> > But should Mack not have asked the question: why would the teaching
> > Jesus have come to us in such a meager, tortuous fashion? Why is the
> > picture thus created of him so incongruous? Considering that such a
> > teaching Jesus is utterly missing in the first century epistles, should not
> > the possibility be examined that this original layer of Q did not belong to
> > a Jesus at all, but was in fact ultimately the product of a Cynic milieu,
> > something which found its way into a Jewish preaching movement in
> > Galilee and only later got attached to the idea of an historical figure?
> > Certainly, Q1 sounds like the product of a school or lifestyle, developed
> > over time and hardly the sudden invention of a single mind. Once again,
> > a logical avenue of investigation was never opened.
> >
> >
> > The fact that both Q and Thomas, two distinct communities, show no
> > biographical interest in Jesus’ life and remained impervious to ideas
> > of a death and resurrection as elements of faith and soteriology, should
> > raise alarm bells and lead any conscientious historian to examine the
> > possibility that both these documents began as simply sayings collections,
> > unattached to any Jesus figure.
> >
> >http://home.ca.inter.net/~oblio/review1.htm
> >
> >It's a hop, skip and a jump from Cynics to Luddites, to Diggers to Beats
> >and Hippies, the eternal Journey to the East.
> >
> >Of course, the Southern Christian Leadership Conference:
> >
> >http://www.sclcnational.org/content/sclc/splash.htm
> >
> >. . . .had a massive influence on the Civil Rights movement of the sixties.
> >There are devout Christians who naturally "do the right thing", and the same
> >holds for those who won't---vide Vibe. But satire always rules over Pynchon's
> >writings, and we should never lose sight of whatever ghastly pun might be
> >buried under so many dense layers of spiritual autodidacticism.
> >
> >http://www.fatemag.com/issues/1940s/1948-spring-article1a.html
> >
> >*: http://www.cygnus-study.com/pageq.html
>
>
>