atdtda: 31 - pg 869

[Bekah]

Great post,  Laura.  Thanks!

I think the difference between the revenge of the Webb brothers and  
the Uskok family is due to a couple of things.   First of course,  as  
Mark mentioned,  is the history of violence and ages-old animosities   
in the Balkans.  The Webbs (4 young men) sought revenge for one  
incident - their father's murder.   The revenge of the Uskok family  
(many people)  had to do with centuries of built up resentment and  
grievance for the destruction of their whole culture.   I think that  
Pynchon was not so much comparing the two families in terms of their  
rage or vengeance but showing us how long-lasting and pervasive some  
grievances become.  It's almost as if the Uskok's hang on to their  
grievances as a part of their culture.

p. 874.6-.7    "You have stepped into a long history of blood and  
penance and the coin of these transactions is struck not from metal,  
but from Time."

Another thing is that on page 874 where the actual death of Theign  
takes place it's a more torturous experience than is the death of  
Webb or Vibe.   Difference in cultures maybe?   "Bang-bang,  you're  
dead,"  versus "Here's an eyeball and there's a knee" (although there  
was a gun there).

The point of comparison may be that the Webb's only have a tiny  
grievance compared to some world-wide grievances which the West (US)  
can't even begin to understand.   (I think that's in there somewhere,  
too.)

Bekah




On Apr 26, 2008, at 10:50 AM, kelber at mindspring.com wrote:

> I haven't had the guts or fortitude to tackle Proust, but another p- 
> list poster (too far in the past for me
>  to remember) said that these detailed clothing descriptions were  
> straight out of Proust.  Not surprising
>  that he goes all out in the descriptions before plugging  
> Remembrance on the next page.
>
> Something that caught my attention on p. 869:
>
> The discussion between the Prince and Cyprian about finding someone  
> to avenge Vlado's death:
>
> "'I have recently returned,' said Cyprian carefully,'from a place  
> where it is much more difficult, at least
>  for the great Powers, to subvert personal honor.  A place less  
> developed no doubt than the sophisticated
>  cultures of the West, still naive, if not quite innocent.'"
>
> Cyprian eventually recruits Vlado's cousin, Zlatko.
>
> Now all of this seems to be kind of a slap in the face to Reef and  
> Kit.  It could certainly be argued that
> they spring from a place "less developed" rather than from the  
> "sophisticated cultures of the West,"
> (a nice play on the meaning of "West").  So why don't they have the  
> same passion to avenge their father's death.  Although they can't  
> be bought off (Vibe tries this strategy with Kit), they're easily  
> diverted.  Not much passion in evidence.   So we get Cyprian-Zlatko- 
> passion-revenge-less-developed (anarchistic) = good,
> and Reef-Kit- no passion-no revenge- less developed (anarchistic) -  
> seduced by sophisticated culture? also = good.  Why isn't TRP more  
> pissed off at Reef and Kit's behavior?  Are they meant to be  
> reflections through
> Iceland Spar of the noble passion of Cyprian and Zlatko?
>
> Laura
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bekah <Bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net>
>> Sent: Apr 26, 2008 10:12 AM
>> To: P-list Liste <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>> Subject: atdtda: 31 - pg 869
>>
>> A couple of annotations from page 869
>>
>> 869.20   salizzada  - a paved street
>> http://www.bellereti.com/jzimm/Venice/Calli.html
>>
>>  Cyprian catches his first look at Reef,   but his eyes are on
>> Yashmeen who is all decked out (so to speak) and Pynchon writes
>> fashion pieces with such zest,  and perhaps a bit of possible
>> symbolic flavor.
>>
>> Yashmeen's dress is made of
>> aubergine  taffeta - a kind of eggplant/plum color on a crisp shiny
>> fabric with silver brocade trim
>> http://tinyurl.com/3stvsp
>> which is styled in a manner similar to:
>> http://www.fashion-era.com/images/Silhouettes/ 
>> 1905dressbasqcen1000.jpg
>>
>> and she has  claret colored (red close to burgundy) capeskin (a light
>> flexible leather made from sheepskins with the natural grain
>> retained) gloves    and kid leather boots - same color.   Her hat has
>> plumes of the same color (claret) and a  brim raked to one side.
>> http://tinyurl.com/5rk73z (scroll down)
>>
>> ***  I don't know about you folks,  but imo,  aubergine (plum) and
>> claret (burgundy) clash if the tone - amount of light  -  is not
>> perfect - like Austria and Venice.
>>
>> http://www.ccfdesign.com/ASP/WebDesign/Articles/Web-Color-Chart- 
>> II.asp
>> The eggplant in this sample is a bit grey imo,  it should be somewhat
>> more purple - like what they call violet there.
>>
>> Bekah
>>

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