Idle Zoyd, Crappy Vineland?

[Michael Bailey]

even though the book opens with Zoyd, I'm inclined to think of Frenesi
as the protagonist.

And though I love the book, I'm very glad to see Mr Jackson posting again.


On 12/3/08, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Yes. Yes.
>
>  I see Zoyd as in the tradition of Pynchon's schlemeils, the "whole sick crew", the young chums......loveable but (still)immature.
>
>  To overidentify him with TRP himself is just wrong...(not least because we know from John Leonard's review that TRP had presented his BIG works-in-progress to grants committees before Vineland was even published....he always worked harder than his characters...)
>
>  And in this novel I think it does reflect on Zoyd and the book's themes
>  that he is still a bit like that at his age....that 'creeping fig' should have been cut back a bit which is all it needs to NOT invade through a window.
>
>  Still disorganized, sleeping late regularly, hunting his smokes and eating sugary 'kids' cereal.
>
>  Mark
>
>
>
>
>  --- On Wed, 12/3/08, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  > From: David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>  > Subject: Re: Idle Zoyd, Crappy Vineland?
>  > To: "Carvill John" <johncarvill at hotmail.com>
>  > Cc: pynchon-l at waste.org
>  > Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 8:47 AM
>
> > On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:00 AM, Carvill John
>  > >
>  > > I note, with a shudder, that a certain old-time
>  > p-lister is back, and >dissing Zoyd, Vineland and Pynchon
>  > yet again. >Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
>  >
>  > Come on, John.  Everyone's entitled to an opinion or
>  > two, even (maybe
>  > especially) if they're not popular ones.  A group of
>  > groupies and
>  > sycophants is a sure recipe for boredom.
>  >
>  > > I don't see Zoyd as 'idle', and my
>  > instincts (and experience) tell me many other Pynchon fans
>  > share this view. In fact I'd go so far as to say that
>  > I'd bet most of us feel immediate affection for, and in
>  > more than a few cases, identification with Zoyd.  I think
>  > someone seeing Zoyd as idle marks that person out as being
>  > on the opposite side of the 'Culture Wars' from Zoyd
>  > and from Pynchon. I see that kind of person as being on the
>  > side of the Brock Vonds and Ronald Reagans of this world.
>  >
>  > Well, Zoyd has been idle, but under an enforced contract to
>  > be so.
>  > Even so, he has done a fine job of raising his daughter and
>  > being a
>  > beloved part of this alternative community.  If he's
>  > been "sleeping,"
>  > it's because Brock gave him that poison pill.  Now
>  > he's to be awakened
>  > by a similar agent.  Like so many of Pynchon's
>  > Schlemeils, he gets
>  > pushed around alot, but we still love him like we love
>  > Benny Profane
>  > and Tyrone Slothrop.
>  >
>  > That said, Vineland is my least favorite of Pynchon's
>  > novels.  But
>  > I've said that here before.
>  >
>  > David Morris
>
>
>
>


-- 
--
"Certainly this cookbook is for people who are not so neurotically
antiauthoritarian as I am - to whom one can say, "Take the juice of
one lemon," without the furious response: "Is that a direct order?" -
Grace Paley