The phrase

[Mark Kohut]

Hey, maybe with TRP, often a lyrical poet, both meanings are sorta intended at once?....all meaings sorta?

As in T.(ough) S. (hit) Eliot--a Pynchon great fave--- and his beloved 'metaphysical poets", that ole lover of a woman and God and multiple meanings,  John Donne say?

Some on this list have taught me not to reduce to 'the one' meaning.......

Mark, 
Conflict Resolution Counselor


----- Original Message ----
From: "kelber at mindspring.com" <kelber at mindspring.com>
To: pynchon-l at waste.org
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 11:13:33 AM
Subject: Re: The phrase

To quibble further about p. 683:

TRP uses the construction: "contrary to Reason, against the Day" then, later in the same sentence: "to turn, to go back"

In both cases, the phrase after the comma is a restating (or enhancement) of the first.  Reason: Day, as turn: go back.  Day is akin to enlightenment, directed reasoning.

Laura


-----Original Message-----
>From: David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>

>
>Not surprisingly, Pynchon uses this phrase in different ways,
>especially in AtD.  The usage in MD pg 123 seems to mean "in
>opposition to" the coming light of day.  "Opposition" to the light is
>akin to "holding up for examination or comparison" but with critical
>differences.  I think he uses the phrase both ways in different
>places.
>
>But the meaning in MD pg 683 is more a time usage.  I don't think
>Laura's "enlightenment" works.  The sentence is a bit complex, but it
>refers to their holding on to a hope of possible return in the future,
>not what seems their inevitable "[not] make all come right."  And this
>hope will be maintained "till the Moment they must pass over the Crest
>of the Savage Mountain," a point of no return.
>
>David Morris
>
>On Jan 23, 2008 4:34 PM,  <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>> p. 683 (in part):
>>
>> " ... yet, whilst they bide in this Realm of the Penny-foolish and Pound-idiotick, till the Moment they must pass over the Crest of the Savage Mountain, does their remain to them, contrary to Reason, against the Day, a measurable chance, to turn, to go back out of no more than Stubbornness, and somehow make all come right ..."
>>
>> "Day" seems to refer to "enlightenment" in this context.
>>
>> Later on this same page, the phrase "against the low-lit Day" is used, and TRP also uses the phrase "against the sky" a number of times.   The way he uses these phrases suggests (to me, anyway) that "against the day" means something akin to "holding up for examination or comparison" to the "light" or "enlightenment."  More in keeping with Robin's "light" interpretation than the OED "storage" usages.
>>
>> Laura


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