The phrase

[Mark Kohut]

grladams wrote:
Each time I read the phrase I see visuals, I see 
Wheel  A wheel turns forward but the only way it can do so is by a
constant friction against something else. 
__________________________________________________

Wheels, Ferris and otherwise,Wheel of Time and lotsa related
"turns" all over TRPs work,,,,,


----- Original Message ----
From: "grladams at teleport.com" <grladams at teleport.com>
To: pynchon-l at waste.org
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 1:57:57 PM
Subject: Re: The phrase

Here's my two cents.
First I LOVE this discussion. 

Each time I read the phrase I see visuals, I see 
Wheel  A wheel turns forward but the only way it can do so is by a
constant friction against something else. 

Dread  the phrase conjures for me an image of leaning into the wind, or
putting one's shoulder into pulling or pushing.

Light forms-- light yet not quite there yet. Light coming at you from a
sunrise, or a lamp on in the night during an all-nighter, or meditation in
the abscence of light where one visualizes light, but it's really not light
out yet.



Original Message:
-----------------
From:  kelber at mindspring.com
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 12:14:00 -0500 (EST)
To: pynchon-l at waste.org
Subject: Re: The phrase


I'm totally out of quibbles ...

Laura

-----Original Message-----
>From: David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>Sent: Jan 24, 2008 11:52 AM
>To: kelber at mindspring.com
>Cc: pynchon-l at waste.org
>Subject: Re: The phrase
>
>Oops, let me correct my statement below.  I just re-read the phrase
>and saw something I'd missed:
>
>The "Realm of the Penny-foolish and Pound-idiotick" is the same place
>as "contrary to Reason," and the logical/reasonable place they are
>both opposing is "the Moment they must pass over the Crest of the
>Savage Mountain,"  a moment they can pretend won't come.  It is the
>"day" they are "against," and this opposition IS "contrary to reason,"
> because every moment that passes brings them closer to that point of
>no return.  So the two do enhance each other, but "reason" doesn't
>mean enlightenment.  It means the logical end of their progression,
>that "day."
>
>Pynchon's sentences can be so jumpy!
>
>David Morris
>
>On Jan 24, 2008 10:27 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>> More quibbling:
>>
>> " ... yet, whilst they bide in this Realm of the Penny-foolish and
>> Pound-idiotick, till the Moment they must pass over the Crest of the
>> Savage Mountain, does their remain to them, contrary to Reason,
>> against the Day, a measurable chance, to turn, to go back out of no
>> more than Stubbornness, and somehow make all come right ..."
>>
>> You interpret "contrary to Reason, against the Day" as enhancemants of
>> each other, and I disagree.  The "day" is enhanced by what follows it,
>> "a measurable chance, to turn, to go back."  That is, a possible time
>> in the future which is the opposite of the time mentioned just before,
>> " the Moment they must pass over the Crest of the Savage Mountain."
>>
>> At least that's what makes the most sense to me...  (but I can also
>> see it as you do)
>>
>> David Morris
>>
>>
>> On Jan 24, 2008 10:13 AM,  <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>> > To quibble further about p. 683:
>> >
>> > TRP uses the construction: "contrary to Reason, against the Day" then,
later in the same sentence: "to turn, to go back"
>> >
>> > In both cases, the phrase after the comma is a restating (or
enhancement) of the first.  Reason: Day, as turn: go back.  Day is akin to
enlightenment, directed reasoning.
>> >
>> > Laura
>>


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