"The Trouble with Quibbles".....(famous StarTrek show NOT)

[Joe Allonby]

Welcome to the realm beyond time and space, Wesley.

On Jan 24, 2008 2:29 PM, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "grladams at teleport.com" <grladams at teleport.com>
> To: pynchon-l at waste.org
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 1:57:57 PM
> Subject: Re: The phrase
>
> Here's my two cents.
> First I LOVE this discussion.
>
> Each time I read the phrase I see visuals, I see
> Wheel  A wheel turns forward but the only way it can do so is by a
> constant friction against something else.
>
> Dread  the phrase conjures for me an image of leaning into the wind, or
> putting one's shoulder into pulling or pushing.
>
> Light forms-- light yet not quite there yet. Light coming at you from a
> sunrise, or a lamp on in the night during an all-nighter, or meditation in
> the abscence of light where one visualizes light, but it's really not
> light
> out yet.
>
>
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From:  kelber at mindspring.com
> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 12:14:00 -0500 (EST)
> To: pynchon-l at waste.org
> Subject: Re: The phrase
>
>
> I'm totally out of quibbles ...
>
> Laura
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> >Sent: Jan 24, 2008 11:52 AM
> >To: kelber at mindspring.com
> >Cc: pynchon-l at waste.org
> >Subject: Re: The phrase
> >
> >Oops, let me correct my statement below.  I just re-read the phrase
> >and saw something I'd missed:
> >
> >The "Realm of the Penny-foolish and Pound-idiotick" is the same place
> >as "contrary to Reason," and the logical/reasonable place they are
> >both opposing is "the Moment they must pass over the Crest of the
> >Savage Mountain,"  a moment they can pretend won't come.  It is the
> >"day" they are "against," and this opposition IS "contrary to reason,"
> > because every moment that passes brings them closer to that point of
> >no return.  So the two do enhance each other, but "reason" doesn't
> >mean enlightenment.  It means the logical end of their progression,
> >that "day."
> >
> >Pynchon's sentences can be so jumpy!
> >
> >David Morris
> >
> >On Jan 24, 2008 10:27 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> More quibbling:
> >>
> >> " ... yet, whilst they bide in this Realm of the Penny-foolish and
> >> Pound-idiotick, till the Moment they must pass over the Crest of the
> >> Savage Mountain, does their remain to them, contrary to Reason,
> >> against the Day, a measurable chance, to turn, to go back out of no
> >> more than Stubbornness, and somehow make all come right ..."
> >>
> >> You interpret "contrary to Reason, against the Day" as enhancemants of
> >> each other, and I disagree.  The "day" is enhanced by what follows it,
> >> "a measurable chance, to turn, to go back."  That is, a possible time
> >> in the future which is the opposite of the time mentioned just before,
> >> " the Moment they must pass over the Crest of the Savage Mountain."
> >>
> >> At least that's what makes the most sense to me...  (but I can also
> >> see it as you do)
> >>
> >> David Morris
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jan 24, 2008 10:13 AM,  <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
> >> > To quibble further about p. 683:
> >> >
> >> > TRP uses the construction: "contrary to Reason, against the Day"
> then,
> later in the same sentence: "to turn, to go back"
> >> >
> >> > In both cases, the phrase after the comma is a restating (or
> enhancement) of the first.  Reason: Day, as turn: go back.  Day is akin to
> enlightenment, directed reasoning.
> >> >
> >> > Laura
> >>
>
>
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