meta-something

[Guy Ian Scott Pursey]

> "One thing I've noticed is that Pynchon generally respects the limits  
of metaphor so as not to dishonor the atrocities.  He tends to steer  
a bit clear of dealing with historical genocides (Indian, Jewish,  
Armenian and so on)."  

Unlike, for example, Jonathan Safran Foer.

Anyway, I guess what you're saying is mainly in reference to AtD, which I still haven't managed to forklift off my bookshelf... But I find myself nodding w/r/t the points you're making.

Off the top of my head: the scene in M&D where Dixon takes on the slave-owner. As long as I have my memory, that'll stay with me. Is that an example of the kind of direct language you're talking about?

Guy


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pynchon-l at waste.org on behalf of Bekah
Sent: Sat 7/19/2008 18:25
To: Pynchon Liste
Subject: meta-something
 

On Jul 16, 2008, at 10:57 AM, Henry wrote:
> I turn to fiction because of the hubris of non-fiction's posing as  
> fact when, in fact, fact is in the arty-facts.

Oh hello from days ago but this just won't get out of mind.   I think  
I understand what you're saying and yes,  the idea of meta-history  
seems always just under the surface in AtD.  Pynchon may be very  
subtly stirring a wee bit of iron-y flavored meta-history into the  
mix , what with some ever so slightly skewed chronology and a  
smattering of curious omissions.

However,  and I think this is most evident in the Luddlow part,   
there are some "events" which are, even later, beyond metaphor. The  
memory has emotional impact.  We are stirred when we first learn of  
it and say stuff like "where was that in the history books?"  It was  
hidden between Manifest Destiny and WWI -in the part about "Give me  
your tired, your poor, your ignorant."

No,  Ludlow deserves the very clearest and most direct language we  
can offer  because words become all we have.  To do less would be to  
sweep the barbaric hubris of capitalist greed into some kind of dust- 
bin of "history is bunk."    Yes,  history from the top has its poses  
as does history from the bottom - nevertheless,  we ought not throw  
the baby out with the bath water.  Remember Catalonia and all that -  
as best we can.

One thing I've noticed is that Pychon generally respects the limits  
of metaphor so as not to dishonor the atrocities.  He tends to steer  
a bit clear of dealing with historical genocides (Indian, Jewish,  
Armenian and so on).    That said,  from the workers'  pov he hit the  
Ludlow Massacre head on - metaphor or not  (and was actually much  
pretty dry in that department) -  because sometimes words are all we  
have.

I wonder about the consistency of my position here but although I  
kinda, sorta, understand the ideas of Hayden White - there is,  
nevertheless,  a time and place for the clearest language we have  
(metaphor or not,  because it will speak for itself) so as not to  
forget the magnitude of human inhumanity.

Bekah