ATDTDA (33) - p. 924-6 peyote

[Mark Kohut]

Good observation...........hadn't noticed the difference.
   
  Pynchon's hedonistic whole sick crew types are (sorta) replaced by the Chums in ATD
  and the drug use (never the Chums, if I remember)  IS spiritual (in some way) in AtD.

kelber at mindspring.com wrote:
  The drug use in ATD is either addictive (cyclomite) or spiritual (peyote). Contrast this with Slothrop's hedonistic drug use in GR (except for his science lab guinea-pig down-the-toilet experience). Young Pynchon-hedonistic vs. Old Pynchon-spiritual. Personally, I kinda miss the young Pynchon.

Laura

-----Original Message-----
>From: robinlandseadel at comcast.net
>Sent: May 21, 2008 12:26 PM
>To: P-list 

>Subject: Re: ATDTDA (33) - p. 924-6 peyote
>
>There's a famous/infamous book: 
>The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross: 
>A Study of the Nature and Origins of Christianity 
>within the Fertility Cults of the Ancient Near East 
>by John Marco Allegro 
>
>http://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Mushroom-Cross-Christianity-Fertility/dp/0340128755
>
>It gets into the swim of things.
>
>Yes, I've heard that regional differences in visonary experience can 
>be attributed to differences in local hallucinogens.
>
>I've had peyote and mescaline. Seriously, the stuff does a purdy good 
>job of derailing whatever left-lobe commentary you were workin' on, 
>so's the overall effect is kinda hard to describe. Friendlier than acid, 
>not as friendly as 'shrooms.
>
>You want cosmic, try fasting.
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
>From: kelber at mindspring.com
>> Due to an unfortunate mishandling of some psych medications once, I was launched 
>> into a hallucinatory episode which involved more of the traditional Buddhist (I 
>> think?) imagery of the Wheel turning on itself, reducing me first to the 
>> molecular level, then down to pure energy where I could meld with the Universe. 
>> I'm guessing this is more in keeping with an acid trip. Anyway, this is very 
>> different from Frank's soaring-over-the-city vision. 
>> 
>> Someone recently posted a link to a comic-strip about the history of LSD from a 
>> group that links hallucinogens with religion. Just think it's interesting that 
>> different hallucinogens can lead to different types of hallucinations and, 
>> therefore, different types of religions. Does anyone have any sense of how 
>> similar/different the beliefs of the peyote using Native Americans are to/from 
>> Buddhism? I think TRP finds them the same. Aztlan and Shambhala are one 
>> mystical city accessible only via spirituality/hallucinogens.
>> 
>> Laura
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> >From: Michael Bailey 
>> >Sent: May 21, 2008 8:08 AM
>> >To: Pynchon Liste 

>> >Subject: Re: ATDTDA (33) - p. 924-6 peyote
>> >
>> > laura asked:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> For those who have indulged, a question: in the first very long sentence 
>> ("Before too long >... view the sky."), is Pynchon perhaps describing a peyote 
>> vision he himself had, or are we >meant to parse the literal meaning of Frank's 
>> vision?
>> >
>> >well, I only had them the once, from a friend with a lot more experience
>> >and really have nothing substantive (or superstantive)
>> >to offer on that...I told somebody the story of it once and they were
>> >underwhelmed:
>> >"well, most people throw up behind them. I didn't. But of all the nasty
>> >tastes in the world, they must be pretty close to the top...what did I see?
>> >well I'm always seein' weird shit..."
>> >
>> >but the Vision of the City - I would think most of us gringos have had it:
>> >in dreams or after a school lesson on the native americans -
>> >where you are living in a pre-Columbian city? as one of them?
>> >and you wake to a feeling of only-just-bearable loss?
>> >doesn't it sound familiar?
>> 
>



       
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