ATDTDA (33) - p. 931-33 - Yz-les-Bains

[Mark Kohut]

Laura wrote about Yz-les-Bains and the possibility of it as an ideal (alternate kind of) community:
   
  Yes, thinking on it, I agree.......that that is what "an alternate reality" by the p-wiki poster means by 'alternate reality".................(I originally took it as some counter-factual universe. Some sci-fi second reality literally, not conceptually)
   
  However, re McTaggart: I, believe it or not, have studied him a bit. [great course on the Philosophy of Time back when I had more--of both]...He is/was known as 'not believing in time' because he did not believe in it the common sense way---one event after another linearly..
   
  His personal ideal "Hegelianism" in this respect was sorta like theologians wrestling with what Time/timelessness means for an eternal/omniscient God-----that non-material ideal meaning, perhaps............[don't ask me to defend this. smile]
   
  I am coming to think that Yashmeen uses him as a joke when she does for the reason you 
  outline: the world ought to be more like ideal anarchism, i.e. it would be a kind of constant present, full of simple spontaneity, timeless in that sense, VERY akin to TRPs words on the constant immediacy of the experience of life/time in indigenous, traditional, natural societies..........
   
  Everything done would be done spontaneously, naturally-----as a writer on anarchism wrote back in the day I was taking that time-bound course-----"Who will pick up the garbage in an anarchistic society", i am asked. "Why, those who do", I answer.  [also not going to defend an Anarchistic Society here, and don't think TRP has to---he's just pointing at somethinhg ideal in a certain situation.]
   
  I am absolutely blown away by Pynchon's yoking of these notions here, if I am right. His ideal anarchism links with his indigenous society values......who else, who else could do that?!
   
  Isn't there a hint of something like this--ideal anarchism---by Slothrop in the Zone?
   
  A-and, this Time stuff has to tie in to other layers on the subject in AtD that are beyond my ken. 
   
  First subthought: Now I think I see how to take McTaggart in AtD...he did not see time linearly----singled up! , as it were, so he is one of Pynchon's outside the normal types.......
  a positive type (more or ;less)   [I saw him as being satirized because of what I knew of his
  'crazy' notions, but I'm just a slow linear type] ONLY ONLY ONLY Pynchon would get to
  the bottom of his linearity theme by linking it to linear time--is how I feel tonight (Although I am surely
  not well enough read in books that might play with such ideas; even before my course on
  Time, i could never stand works using time travel.).
   
  Appreciate the man's yoking---like Eliot on the Metaphysical poets: the yoking of opposites...as well as his joking....
   
  MK
   
   
  
 
  

McTaggert believed in time, but in the ideal, not material realm. Being a metaphysician, he wasn't troubled by the unreality of time.

Laura

-----Original Message-----
>From: Mark Kohut 
>Sent: May 22, 2008 10:17 PM
>To: kelber at mindspring.com
>Cc: pynchon -l 

>Subject: Re: ATDTDA (33) - p. 931-33 - Yz-les-Bains
>
>I find it all quite puzzling. 
> 
> Contra the p-wiki, I see no evidence in the text for this place being an "alternate reality'......the x,y. z stuff does not imply that to me........nothing is too strange and much is like other visits of yashmeen and Cyprian.
> 
> There seems to be much of OBA's attitudinal perspective on anarchistic nuances.....
> Why does yashmeen THEN say the discussion of same 'reminds her of McTaggart", who did not believe in time????
> 
> Planning, knowing one's duties (in advance), a combination room WITH a master-----all are
> thje way it works in time (as we know it) ?
> 
> With no "time', ala McTaggart, in which everything would happen non-linearly------who said
> Time was what kept everything from happening all at once?----then timelessness (in mcTaggart's sense) is kin to ideal anarchism?....That's yashmeen's little joke?
> 
> is such a timeless ideal ..........impossible?.....Or just hasn't happenned (much)?
>
>kelber at mindspring.com wrote:
> 
>Yz-les-Bains (see the Pynchon-wiki on this one). Seems to be a play on Aix-les-Bains, with YZ substituted for the x-term. If reality exists on the X-axis, then the action here is occurring in an alternate reality that exists on the YZ-plane, i.e. a parallel world with comparatively more dimensions than ours, at least for the time variable.
>
>Wikipedia: gave [French]: a generic name referring to torrential rivers in the west side of the Pyrennees.
>
>The Catalunan struggle [tilde over the n]: In Catalonian, it's spelled Catalunya. This region's struggle for autonomy was ultimately squashed, along with anarchism, by Franco during the Spanish Civil War.
>
>Former residents of Montjuich: Catalan for "Hill of the Jews," possibly derived from the original Latin name, Mont Jovicus Hill of Jupiter. The site in Barcelona of a notorious fortress where political prisoners (anarchists, nationalists) were held and executed.
>
>Sophrosyne [Ancient Greek]: a crude translation might be "prudence" or "moderation," but this is more of a life philosophy, implying moral balance, wisdom, self-knowledge, obedience to harmony and proportion, etc. Somewhat analogous to Buddhism?
>
>Ratty's triangle is comprised of two women, one man. Presumably a completed triangle like Y-C-R, but a mirror image in terms of the genders. In this oddball universe, Ratty, the British F. O. operative has become Reg, the anarchist. [similar to Ewball's transformation from capitalist scion to anarchist, as Michael pointed out in the last section].
>
>John McTaggart Ellis McTaggart: (1866-1925) Originally born Ellis, but had to adopt his middle name as his last name for inheritance purposes. Philosopher and lecturer at Trinity College, Cambridge. In his work The Unreality of Time (1908), he argued that Time was an ideal without material basis. Yashmeen's comment, "Sounds like John McTaggart Ellis McTaggart all over again," is a joking reference to the "vicious circle" that McTaggart said would result from trying to prove the material existence of time. Basically [I'm struggling here], to describe a past, present and future, you have to posit the existence of past, presence and future - a vicious circle. Yashmeen is responding to Ratty's statement that the anarchists do what needs to be done because they know what needs to be done.
>
>"The senior combination room [lounge] of a college without a master." A description of how an anarchist community functions?
>
>For Reef, anarchism means blowing stuff up. He's a little disappointed that these anarchists are into coevolution. 
>
>Reef thinks of the IWW, Yashmeen of T.W.I.T.
>
>Jenny: "So many of these mystical fellowships end up as creatures of their host governments."
>
>The vast betrayal of the Socialist parties of England, France, Belgium and Germany is looming. Although they were part of the Second International, and were committed to working towards international socialism, the party leaders caved in to nationalism at the start of WWI (an interesting inversion of IWW).
>
>Yashmeen, Sophrosyne and Jenny get into a feminist critique of anarchism as practiced by men.
>
>The British suffragist movement also suspended its activities during the war, greatly delaying women's suffrage.
>
>The IWW remained solidly anti-war, although this was certainly easier in the protectionist climate of the US.
>
>Laura
>
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