TMoP: Chapter 5 pgs 43 - 49; on Baal

[Mark Kohut]

Both/all meanings true, of course. A demon in the Western religious tradition is a fallen god...master of lord...

Reinforces with the title, as Bekah links it, D. and his 'demons"...


--- On Sun, 10/5/08, Bekah <Bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> From: Bekah <Bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: TMoP:  Chapter 5  pgs 43 - 49; on Baal
> To: markekohut at yahoo.com
> Cc: "pynchon -l" <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> Date: Sunday, October 5, 2008, 10:20 PM
> I see I neglected to reference my source:  
> http://en.wikipedia.org/ 
> wiki/Baal
> 
> "Ba'al (pronounced: [baʕal]; Hebrew: בעל)
> (ordinarily spelled Baal  
> in English) is a Northwest Semitic title and honorific
> meaning  
> "master" or "lord" that is used for
> various gods who were patrons of  
> cities in the Levant, cognate to Assyrian Bēlu. A Baalist
> means a  
> worshipper of Baal."
> 
> *  probably a number of possible context-dependent meanings
> to the term
> 
> Bekah
> 
> 
> 
> On Oct 5, 2008, at 12:13 PM, Mark Kohut wrote:
> 
> > Baal (demon)
> > From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> >
> > The Dictionnaire Infernal illustration of Baal.Baal
> (sometimes  
> > spelled Bael, Baël (French), Baell)is a
> Judeo-Christian demon. His  
> > name also refers to various gods and goddesses who are
> not demons.  
> > This is a potential source of confusion. In this
> article, the name  
> > Baal is used only to refer to the demon Baal, unless
> stated otherwise
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Bekah
> <Bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Bekah <Bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net>
> >> Subject: TMoP:  Chapter 5  pgs 43 - 49
> >> To: "pynchon -l"
> <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> >> Date: Sunday, October 5, 2008, 11:28 AM
> >> I sent this but didn't see it come through and
> it's
> >> not on the site.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ***********
> >> [page 43 - 44    D.  "Nechaev is not a police
> matter.
> >> Ultimately
> >> Nechaev is not a matter for the authorities at
> all, at
> >> least for the
> >> secular authorities."
> >> Maximov says that Nechaevism is an idea - you
> can't
> >> stamp out ideas
> >> by imprisoning their leader.   But D. says
> Nechaevism
> >> is beyond
> >> ideas, Nechaevism hates ideas,  It's a spirit,
>  a
> >> demon,  Nechaev is
> >> its host,  is possessed by it.]
> >>
> >> * I suppose this would make Nechaevism a spiritual
> problem
> >> and this
> >> is where Dostoevsky comes in to explore it with
> Crime and
> >> Punishment
> >> and Demons?
> >>
> >>
> >> ***********
> >> [page 44 - D.  tries to visualize Nechaev and says
> that the
> >> name of
> >> the spirit inhabiting Nechaev is "Baal."
>  ]
> >>
> >> * Title reference  - T "Master" oP -  in
> Hebrew
> >> Baal refers to Lord
> >> or  "Master."
> >>
> >> Maximov is irritated by D's constant reference
> to
> >> ideas,  "Is it even
> >> practical to talk about ideas going about in the
> land, as
> >> if ideas
> >> had arms and legs?  Will such talk assist us in
> our
> >> labours? Will it
> >> assist Russia?"
> >>
> >> ***********
> >>
> >> [page 45 - Maximov talks about the difference in
> children
> >> of the day
> >> -  think they're immortal"  "like
> fighing
> >> demons,"   "I am a father
> >> myself."   "It's in their blood...
> to wish us
> >> ill, our generation." ]
> >>
> >> * And Coetzee,  as I noted above somewhere, 
> writes
> >> frequently about
> >> parent/child relationships and generational divide
> in his
> >> older and
> >> newer works. And Coetzee's own son hovers in
> the
> >> picture,  on the
> >> side,  the reader wonders...
> >>
> >>
> >> ***********
> >> [page 45 and then Maximov makes reference to
> D's own
> >> father,  an
> >> abusive drunkard. ]
> >> http://www.dartmouth.edu/~karamazo/bio01.html
> >> (excellent mini-biography - 10+ pages)
> >>
> >> Dostoevsky's father was a drunk and a
> womanizer,  had
> >> emotional
> >> problems,  and was killed, probably by angry
> peasants.
> >> Dostoevsky
> >> was 17 at the time.
> >>
> >> [Maximov goes on to suggest that the current
> difficulties
> >> are not new
> >> - "...just the old matter of fathers and sons
> after
> >> all, such as we
> >> have always had, only deadlier in this particular
> >> generation..."
> >> and goes on to mention the Decemberists and the
> "men
> >> of '49."]
> >>
> >> ** Decemberists were members of a St. Petersburg
> revolt
> >> which took
> >> place in December of 1825 - Dostoevsky was a young
> child.
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decembrist_revolt
> >>
> >> **  "...the men of '49"  is
> Maximov's
> >> viscous little allusion to the
> >> Petrashevsky Circle to  Dostoevsky belonged until
> his
> >> "execution"
> >> and exile in Siberia in 1849.  The group was a
> Western
> >> oriented bunch
> >> of intellectuals who were opposed to Tsarist rule
> and the
> >> institution
> >> of serfdom.   Petrashevsky was the leader. 
> Maximov is
> >> asking if
> >> Dostoevsky and friends were possessed by demons.
> >>
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrashevsky_Circle
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Petrashevsky
> >> (interesting guy)
> >>
> >>
> >> ***********
> >>
> >> [ Page 46 - Dostoevsky furiously rebuts
> Maximov's
> >> insinuations.
> >> "They were certainly not men of blood.
> Petrashevsky -
> >> ... from the
> >> outset denounced the kind of Jesuitism that
> excuses the
> >> means in the
> >> name of the end."  ]
> >>
> >> **  "The ends justify the means" is
> exactly what
> >> Nechaev is about.
> >> According to the Nechaev -Bakunin Catechism,
> nothing was
> >> unacceptable
> >> as long as the revolutionary furthered his goal.
> >>
> http://subversivevision.wordpress.com/2007/08/15/bakunin-and-nechaev-
> >>
> >> by-paul-avrich/
> >> http://allrussias.com/tsarist_russia/revmov_9.asp
> >> (good articles)
> >>
> >>   * Dostoevsky and Jesuits -  Dostoevsky was
> horrified,
> >> later to the
> >> point of obsession,  by the Jesuits who, in his
> mind,
> >> would stoop to
> >> whatever it took to convert souls.   (Google Books
> - pg 8)
> >> http://
> >> tinyurl.com/5v5qvv
> >>
> >> In  The Brothers Karamazov the idea that
> "(without
> >> God) everything is
> >> permitted" (in various translations) is a
> theme.  It
> >> comes up
> >> repeatedly there.
> >>
> >> [The question remains,  "...why do
> intelligent young
> >> men fall under
> >> the sway of evildoers?"]
> >>
> >> **************
> >> [page 46:   And D. accuses Maximov of holding
> himself at a
> >> distance,
> >> erecting a barrier of ridicule..." to the
> reading
> >> material. ]
> >>
> >> *  discussed in prior pages - Maximov cannot open
> himself
> >> to the
> >> text; he has an agenda and has to find the
> nihilists,
> >> Nechaev.
> >>
> >>   **********
> >> [ page 47: - Dostoevsky gets angry,  "...
> reading is
> >> being the arm
> >> and being the axe and being the skull, reading is
> giving
> >> yourself up,
> >> not holding yourself at a distance jeering." 
> ]
> >>
> >> *  Not sure about the mention of axe there -
> that's a
> >> "People's"
> >> revolutionary symbol - see above, page 41.  - Is
> D.
> >> revealing his old
> >> "revolutionary" impulses through the
> written
> >> word?  -  Reading as an
> >> interactive process,  a joint venture between
> author and
> >> reader?  - I
> >> don't think that's what he's saying in
> the
> >> whole sentence.   And
> >> that's not a Dostoevskian idea - it may be
> >> Coetzee's.
> >>
> >> ***************
> >> [ page 47:   Maximov accuses D of being in a
> fever.
> >> Dostoevsky:
> >> "The papers you are holding on to so
> jealously may as
> >> well be written
> >> in Aramaic for all the good they will do
> you." ]
> >>
> >> *  Aramaic?  A Biblical allusion - but why?  Is he
> calling
> >> Maximov an
> >> atheist?
> >>
> >> ****************
> >>
> >> [page 48 - Dostoevsky returns to the ante-room of
> the
> >> police station
> >> and is overwhelmed by the smell of paint. ]
> >>
> >> * a seizure?  or, as some speculate,  the onset of
> a
> >> creative impulse
> >> which will culminate in a book.)
> >>
> >> ****************
> >> [Page 49 - D. goes for a walk,  trying to summon
> >> Pavel's face,  all
> >> that comes to him is Nechaev.   The image will not
> leave.
> >> ]
> >>
> >> Bek
> >
> >
> >