Not politics - Pynchon (bombs)

[kelber at mindspring.com]

My daughter's a Brandeis kid, following in the footsteps (or not) of Abby Hoffman, Angela Davis, and various other Brandeis alums who straddled both sides of the militant/terrorist divide.  To steer this back to Pynchon, Mark Kohut and I have had a running argument about whether TRP sees Webb Traverse and other anarchist bombers as good guys or bad guys.  I say yes, Mark says no.  To reframe the question, what might TRP's attitude be towards Bill Ayers and the other Weathermen?  I'm assuming a basic, if critical, tolerance (somewhat short of outright affection).  Mark, I'm guessing would disagree.

Laura

-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe Allonby <joeallonby at gmail.com>
>Sent: Oct 8, 2008 12:57 PM
>To: markekohut at yahoo.com
>Cc: Michael Bailey <michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com>, P-list <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>Subject: Re: Not politics - Pynchon (bombs)
>
>So was there an official membership list for the Weather Underground?
>Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of being underground? Susan Saxe and
>Katherine Ann Power did kill someone or at least were active accomplices in
>the shooting. Were they not "officially" Weathermen or were Brandeis kids
>considered dilettantes?
>
>On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 9:24 AM, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> The interviewer also quoted some of Ayers' own criticism of Weatherman in
>> the foreword to the memoir, whereby Ayers reacts to having watched Emile de
>> Antonio's 1976 documentary film about Weatherman, Underground: "[Ayers] was
>> 'embarrassed by the arrogance, the solipsism, the absolute certainty that we
>> and we alone knew the way. The rigidity and the narcissism.' "[14] "We
>> weren't terrorists," Ayers told an interviewer for the Chicago Tribune in
>> 2001. "The reason we weren't terrorists is because we did not commit random
>> acts of terror against people. Terrorism was what was being practiced in the
>> countryside of Vietnam by the United States."[2] However, Gitlin, the former
>> SDS member and author of "The Sixties: Years of Hope, Days of Rage," doesn't
>> buy Ayers' reasoning. "OK, let's give them a medal for not killing anybody
>> besides themselves," he says. "But they wanted to be terrorists. They
>> planned on being terrorists. Then their bomb blew up and killed
>>  several of them and they thought better of it. They were failed
>> terrorists." The bomb in this case was packed with nails demonstrating clear
>> intent to inflict human casualties.
>>
>> In a letter to the editor in the Chicago Tribune, Ayers wrote, "I condemn
>> all forms of terrorism — individual, group and official". He also condemned
>> the September 11 terrorist attacks in that letter. "Today we are witnessing
>> crimes against humanity on our own shores on an unthinkable scale, and I
>> fear that we may soon see more innocent people in other parts of the world
>> dying in response."[23]
>>
>>
>> [edit] Views on his past expressed since 2001
>> Ayers was asked in a January 2004 interview, "How do you feel about what
>> you did? Would you do it again under similar circumstances?" He replied:[24]
>> "I've thought about this a lot. Being almost 60, it's impossible to not have
>> lots and lots of regrets about lots and lots of things, but the question of
>> did we do something that was horrendous, awful? ... I don't think so. I
>> think what we did was to respond to a situation that was unconscionable." On
>> September 9, 2008, journalist Jake Tapper reported on the comic strip in
>> Bill Ayers's blog explaining the soundbite: "The one thing I don't regret is
>> opposing the war in Vietnam with every ounce of my being.... When I say, 'We
>> didn't do enough,' a lot of people rush to think, 'That must mean, "We
>> didn't bomb enough shit."' But that's not the point at all. It's not a
>> tactical statement, it's an obvious political and ethical statement. In this
>> context, 'we' means 'everyone.'"[25][26]
>>
>>
>> [edit] Ayers' political views
>>
>>
>> --- On Wed, 10/8/08, Joe Allonby <joeallonby at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > From: Joe Allonby <joeallonby at gmail.com>
>> > Subject: Re: Not politics - Pynchon (bombs)
>> > To: "Michael Bailey" <michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com>
>> > Cc: "P-list" <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>> > Date: Wednesday, October 8, 2008, 8:53 AM
>>  > They shot a cop in a bank robbery about two blocks from
>> > where I'm typing
>> > this.
>> >
>> > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 3:32 AM, Michael Bailey
>> > <michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> > > there are a lot of good books reviewing the Weather
>> > Underground
>> > > and a couple of videos
>> > >
>> > > what I came away with from looking at a few of them
>> > was
>> > >
>> > > they managed to not kill a lot of people (I'm
>> > thinking zero, but that
>> > > could be wrong)
>> > >
>> > > they got some impressive targets
>> > >
>> > > their statements indicate they were reacting from
>> > understandable
>> > > outrage at the unimaginably
>> > > evil bombing of Cambodia
>> > >
>> > > they didn't accomplish a whole heck of a lot
>> > >
>> > > they could easily have been provocateurs, in that
>> > their actions justified
>> > > draconian enforcement AND took attention away from
>> > Amerikka's SE Asia
>> > > murders
>> > >
>> > > oh, a-and that Mark Rudd went on to become a community
>> > college math
>> > > teacher!
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On 10/7/08, Glenn Scheper
>> > <glenn_scheper at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> > > > From a political email...
>> > > >
>> > > >  During The Time Obama And Ayers Served Together
>> > On The Woods Fund, Ayers
>> > > Was
>> > > >  Quoted Saying "I Don't Regret Setting
>> > Bombs ... I Feel We Didn't Do
>> > > Enough." "'I
>> > > >  don't regret setting bombs,' Bill Ayers
>> > said. 'I feel we didn't do
>> > > enough.' Mr.
>> > > >  Ayers, who spent the 1970's as a fugitive in
>> > the Weather Underground,
>> > > was
>> > > >  sitting in the kitchen of his big
>> > turn-of-the-19th-century stone house
>> > > in the
>> > > >  Hyde Park district of Chicago." (Dinitia
>> > Smith, "No Regrets For A Love
>> > > Of
>> > > >  Explosives," The New York Times, 9/11/01)
>> > > >   -- file://PastedText/854250
>> > > >
>> > > >  ==========
>> > > >
>> > > >  BTW, a hiatus in my help(?) on the TMoP read:
>> > > >
>> > > >  I got a local apt w/o web access yet;
>> > > >  I fled work when the wife showed up.
>> > > >
>> > > >  I'm in a small town that is sooo cool!
>> > > >
>> > > >  I saw a town parade, and knew two people in it.
>> > > >
>> > > >  I dropped in at a van there to give blood for
>> > the
>> > > >  first time (although postponed due to
>> > anitbiotics).
>> > > >
>> > > >  I'm walking around in a relaxed, loving
>> > spirit,
>> > > >  and people are very cordial.
>> > > >
>> > > >  A scary looking bulked ethnic flashed me
>> > "peace".
>> > > >
>> > > >  I got my first real cheeseburger at a local
>> > joint.
>> > > >  "I've been victimized by McDonalds all
>> > these years."
>> > > >
>> > > >  A local emporium--not Walmart--has everything.
>> > > >  I even saw a pair of welding googles.
>> > > >  I got a wine bottle opener, and other needful
>> > things.
>> > > >
>> > > >  Some friends with a business set me up in a
>> > spare office with Internet.
>> > > >
>> > > >  A man gave me a guava off his tree this morning.
>> > > >
>> > > >  I'm checking out Toastmasters tomorrow
>> > evening.
>> > > >
>> > > >  Yours truly,
>> > > >  Glenn Scheper
>> > > >  http://home.earthlink.net/~glenn_scheper/
>> > > >
>> > > > glenn_scheper + at + earthlink.net
>> > > >  Copyleft(!) Forward freely.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > "He ain't crazy, he's a-makin'
>> > pottery" - Finley Pater Dunne
>> > >
>>
>>
>>
>>