TMOP: Chapter 7 on that white suit...
Mark Kohut
markekohut at yahoo.com
Sun Oct 12 18:11:37 CDT 2008
normal meanings to 'white'///clean, pure, new, resurrected metaphjorically?
By 1995 he was rich, sporting a red tie and a white linen suit: an archetype of Novy Russkiy, drawing jokes and contempt.
Novy Russkiy means the "New Russia"....
--- On Fri, 10/10/08, Bekah <Bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> From: Bekah <Bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: TMOP: Chapter 7
> To: "Richard Ryan" <richardryannyc at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "pynchon -l" <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 1:50 AM
> A part of the mood swings goes with epilepsy.
>
> http://www.epilepsy.org.au/Moods_Behaviour_and_Epilepsy.asp
>
> Bekah
>
> On Oct 9, 2008, at 8:10 PM, Richard Ryan wrote:
>
> > Another excellent gloss (to use Mark's apt term)
> Bekah - and,
> > again, I'm struck by D's almost - well, not
> almost, very! - bi-
> > polar temperament. The constant oscillations between
> asceticism
> > and hedonism, elation and despondency, aggression and
> submission
> > (the list could go on) are yet another underlying
> tension we want
> > to keep an eye on....
> >
> > --- On Thu, 10/9/08, Bekah
> <Bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > From: Bekah <Bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net>
> > Subject: TMOP: Chapter 7
> > To: "pynchon -l" <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> > Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 10:40 PM
> >
> > Matryona
> >
> > [Page 66 - D. doesn't return from the island to
> the house with
> > Anna and Matryona. He wanders, declines a card game
> at the inn.
> >
> > (he's switched obsessions perhaps?)
> >
> > [ And he feels lonely. Aware that he may be wearing
> out his
> > welcome with Anna. Aware that he is growing
> physically older -
> > aware of haemorrhoids - dry skin, dental plates.
> >
> > *Dostoevsky really had dentures, hemorrhoids but
> perhaps not so
> > early.]
> >
> > **********
> >
> > [ Page 67 - He wonders what Matryona thinks about
> this "spectacle
> > of decay." He flinches at the idea of being an
> object of pity,
> > remembering Anna's comment "You were
> pleading." (Line 7) (from pg
> > 59) and D. turns to Pavel, kneeling against the bed.
> "... tries to
> > find his way to Yelagin Island and to Pavel in his
> cold grave." ]
> >
> > * There's an abundance of self-pity here but
> he's also really in
> > deep turmoil. As has been said, this is total
> fiction - in
> > Dostoevsky's life, Pavel outlived his step-father
> and Yelagin
> > Island has never been a cemetery.
> >
> > http://www.encspb.ru/en/article.php?kod=2804008886
> >
> > Mentions "a Finnish-Swedish cemetery at Elagin
> (Aptekarsky) Island
> > (abolished in 1756)." - That's only missing
> the "Y" and I think
> > they're the same place. Many, many other
> cemeteries listed at the
> > above site. "In 1738, the Synod affirmed five
> places where burials
> > were to take place, of which only the cemetery on
> Vasilievsky
> > Island has survived. " Mostly cemetery plots
> were free and located
> > near the churches.
> http://www.encspb.ru/en/article.php?
> > kod=2804010103 (but I can't find the source for
> the info.)
> > Meanwhile, Elagin/Yelagin Island has no church
> actually on it. ???
> >
> > View on Yelegin Island
> >
> http://www.oilpaintinghk.com/art/oil_paintings_24317.html
> >
> http://www.nlr.ru/petersburg/spbpcards/photos/lo000000377_1_m.jpg
> >
> > [line 14 "The father faded copy of the son.
> How can he expect a
> > woman who beheld the son in the pride of his days to
> look with
> > favour on the father?"]
> >
> > * That is such an incredible line. To me it
> describes this whole
> > part of the plot. D. is trying to become son but he
> is only a weak
> > version and a copy at that. He's comparing his
> manliness and life-
> > force with that of Pavel's.
> >
> > [line 17 - Remembering the quote of a fellow-prisoner
> in Siberia -
> > " ' Why are we given old age, brothers? So
> that we can grow small
> > again, small enough to crawl through the eye of a
> needle.' Peasant
> > wisdom." ]
> >
> > * It was in Siberia that Dostoevsky experienced his
> life-changing
> > conversion to Russian Orthodox Christianity - he was
> disgusted by
> > the class hatred, the filth and lack of moral fiber
> of the
> > peasants he came in contact with there but was
> mightily impressed
> > by their spirituality.
> > http://www.dartmouth.edu/~karamazo/bio04.html
> >
> > * The eye of the needle is from Matthew 19: 23 - 26
> and Mark 10:25
> > http://biblecc.com/matthew/19-24.htm
> > http://bible.cc/mark/10-25.htm
> >
> > The reference probably means that old men grow very
> humble. In the
> > Biblical references it refers to wealth and possibly
> to Needle's
> > Eye, one of many gates into Jerusalem, which is so
> small only an
> > unencumbered camel on its knees can pass through - any
> excess
> > wealth (treasure boxes) can't fit.
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_a_needle
> >
> >
> > [line 23 He wakes the next day full of life. He
> feels resurrected
> > and wants to shout "Christ is risen!" And
> he wants to dance with
> > Anna and Matryona and painted eggs. ]
> >
> > * This is October, not spring, but October is not
> really cold in
> > St. Petersburg (mid 40s F. for a high) and there
> isn't much rain
> > then. hat has brought this sudden lift of spirits
> about? (Grief
> > is a mysterious process, there are moments or days of
> joy
> > interspersed with the heavy gloom.)
> >
> > * One of Dostoevsky's Siberian spiritual
> experiences occurred at
> > Easter.
> > From
> http://neurophilosophy.wordpress.com/2007/04/16/diagnosing-
> > dostoyevskys-epilepsy/ :
> >> On Easter night, during his exile in Siberia,
> Dostoyevsky was
> >> visited by an old friend, to whom he described the
> almost
> >> prophetic vision he had experienced during the
> aura preceding one
> >> of his attacks:
> >>
> >> The air was filled with a big noise and I tried to
> move. I felt
> >> the heaven was going down upon the earth, and that
> it had engulfed
> >> me. I have really touched God. He came into me
> myself; yes, God
> >> exists, I cried, You all, healthy people, have no
> idea what joy
> >> that joy is which we epileptics experience the
> second before a
> >> seizure. Mahomet, in his Koran, said he had seen
> Paradise and had
> >> gone into it. All these stupid clever men are
> quite sure that he
> >> was a liar and a charlatan. But no, he did not
> lie, he really had
> >> been in Paradise during an attack of epilepsy; he
> was a victim of
> >> this disease as I am. I do not know whether this
> joy lasts for
> >> seconds or hours or months, but believe me, I
> would not exchange
> >> it for all the delights of this world.
> >>
> >
> > *****************
> >
> > [page 68 But this "...joy breaking like a
> dawn" lasts only an
> > instant. An "anti-sun" appears and the word
> "omen" crosses his
> > mind to reveal the idea that there will be 'an
> eclipse; joy shines
> > out only to reveal what the annihilation of joy will
> be like. ' " ]
> >
> > * This uplift of spirits often precedes a seizure -
> see my next post -
> >
> > [ D fears this and the accompanying shame so he leaves
> the house to
> > deal with it privately. In the dark staircase there
> is a loud cry
> > but although the neighbors wake up, D. doesn't
> hear it. ]
> >
> > "Dostoevsky was affected by physical and mental
> disturbances
> > following a seizure (This is also called the
> 'post-ictal 'state) It
> > took him up to one week to recover fully. His chief
> complaint was
> > that his 'head did not clear up' for several
> days and symptoms
> > included, "heaviness and even pain in the head,
> disorders of the
> > nerves, nervous laugh and mystical depression"
> >
> > http://www.charge.org.uk/htmlsite/dost.shtml
> >
> > * Did D. yell? I suppose so.
> >
> > ***********
> > [ Page 69 He wakes from the seizure in darkness.]
> >
> > * This whole page is a great description of a seizure
> - or so it
> > seems to me. Includes the idea of falling into
> yourself.
> >
> > Epilepsy:
> >> The word epilepsy is derived from the Greek
> epilepsia, which in
> >> turn can be broken into epi- (upon) and lepsis (to
> take hold of,
> >> or seizure)[35] In the past, epilepsy was
> associated with
> >> religious experiences and even demonic possession.
> In ancient
> >> times, epilepsy was known as the "Sacred
> Disease" because people
> >> thought that epileptic seizures were a form of
> attack by demons,
> >> or that the visions experienced by persons with
> epilepsy were sent
> >> by the gods. Among animist Hmong families, for
> example, epilepsy
> >> was understood as an attack by an evil spirit, but
> the affected
> >> person could become revered as a shaman through
> these otherworldly
> >> experiences.[36]
> >>
> >> However, in most cultures, persons with epilepsy
> have been
> >> stigmatized, shunned, or even imprisoned; in the
> Salpêtrière, the
> >> birthplace of modern neurology, Jean-Martin
> Charcot found people
> >> with epilepsy side-by-side with the mentally
> retarded, those with
> >> chronic syphilis, and the criminally insane. In
> Tanzania to this
> >> day, as with other parts of Africa, epilepsy is
> associated with
> >> possession by evil spirits, witchcraft, or
> poisoning and is
> >> believed by many to be contagious.[37] In ancient
> Rome, epilepsy
> >> was known as the Morbus Comitialis ('disease
> of the assembly
> >> hall') and was seen as a curse from the gods.
> >>
> >> Stigma continues to this day, in both the public
> and private
> >> spheres, but polls suggest it is generally
> decreasing with time,
> >> at least in the developed world; Hippocrates
> remarked that
> >> epilepsy would cease to be considered divine the
> day it was
> >> understood.[38]
> >>
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epilepsy
> >
> > * Although the idea that these fits were evidence of
> "possession
> > by demons" was pretty well dropped in the 17th
> century, epilepsy
> > was not studied medically until the late 19th century.
> This would
> > have been unknown by Dostoevsky and his crowd and they
> probably
> > still called it the "falling sickness" as in
> Europe during the
> > Middle Ages - (and other cultures even today - See
> "The Spirit
> > Catches You and You Fall Down" by Anne Fadiman -
> her best work,
> > imho ).
> > http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/history
> > http://library.thinkquest.org/J001619/history.html
> ]
> >
> >
> > * In Demons, Kirilov has a kind of frontal lobe
> epilepsy and in
> > The Brothers Karamazov Sverdyakov is so afflicted.
> Prince Myshkin
> > in the Idiot has it including one seizure induced by
> looking at
> > Holbein's painting "The Dead Christ."
> > http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein8.html
> >
> > **********
> >
> > [ page 70 - D. walks through the snow and hides until
> he is sure
> > Anna and her daughter have gone out. Then he goes
> back to the
> > house, washes up pretty thoroughly and then snoops
> around her
> > house. He finds a picture of Anna's deceased
> husband and
> > "deliberately smudges the glass, leaving his
> thumbprint over the
> > face of the dead man."
> >
> > * snooping and jealousy? Is he looking for evidence
> of Pavel or
> > something else? Whatever he can find, perhaps.
> >
> > *****************
> >
> > [ page 71 He enjoys sneaking and spying, "a
> weakness that he has
> > associated till now with a refusal to accept limits to
> what he is
> > permitted to know, with the reading of forbidden
> books, and thus
> > with his vocation. Today ... he is in thrall to a
> spirit of petty
> > evil ... gives him a voluptuous quiver of
> pleasure." ]
> >
> > * Writing is associated with snooping? (Yes,
> I've always thought
> > so.)
> >
> > * D. is presented as going from ecstasy to terror to
> a voluptuous
> > quiver of pleasure" within the space of a single
> morning.
> > Dostoevsky was emotionally unstable, especially in
> his later
> > years. Can't have been an easy life what with the
> the childhood
> > violence, gambling, religion, epilepsy and other
> things . ]
> >
> > [ D. dons Pavel's white suit and checking the
> mirror "sees only a
> > seedy imposture and, beyond that, something
> surreptitious and
> > obscene, something that belongs behind the locked
> doors and
> > curtained windows of rooms where men in wigs and
> skirts bare their
> > rumps to be flogged."
> >
> > [Yup, he probably looks pretty bad and imo, he's
> setting himself up
> > for more perversity there. ]
> >
> > [ He lies down and feels like he's falling into
> blackness again.
> > When he wakes he has "lost all sense of who he
> is." He thinks it's
> > a dream but then the reality hits him.]
> >
> > * The reality is that Pavel is dead and D. is wearing
> the deceased
> > son's clothes and lying on the deceased boy's
> bed - possibly in
> > order to become Pavel.
> >
> > ********
> >
> > [ Page 72 Matryona comes in and thinks D is ill.
> He tells her
> > the story of Pavel's white suit. ]
> >
> > * This story is generally similar to the one which
> Peter
> > Verkhovensky cooks up to assuage Stavrogin's
> mother in Demons. One
> > difference is that Stavrogin actually marries the
> crippled and
> > feeble-minded Marya Timofeyevna. - Book 1, Chapter 5,
> Parts V-
> > VII Marya's brother was a drunkard who beat her.
> >
> > * D. likens Maria (Marya in Demons) to a dog or a
> horse - she
> > doesn't know any better than to take the abuse
> whatever abuse is
> > handed her.
> >
> > [ Coetzee does have a thing for animals, especially
> dogs - see
> > Disgrace especially. ]
> >
> > ********
> >
> > [ Page 73 * Matryona is horrified and D. forces
> totally brutal
> > Russian ideas on the good, naive, young Matryovna.
> >
> > * This is pretty extreme emotional violence done to a
> young girl.
> > Coetzee portrays D. as quite a brute.
> >
> > D. finishes the story of Marya Lebyatkin (Lebyadkin in
> Demons), a
> > variation of the as yet unwritten story of
> Stavrogin's courtship
> > and marriage. (Of course, Pavel didn't marry
> Maria as Stavrogin
> > married Marya. I'm not sure if this makes Pavel a
> bit of a cad or
> > not.
> >
> > [ Page 74 * - Matryona wiggles and puts her thumb in
> her mouth!
> >
> > The effects of such brutality - Matryona is
> regressing.
> >
> > Does D present the story of Pavel and the white suit
> to make Pavel
> > look very "chivalrous;" I'm not sure I
> buy that - it's kind of
> > caddish for Pavel to lead Maria on like that even if
> D. totally
> > invented the story. * The "Demons" story
> of Stavrogin and Marya
> > is quite different - (go read it).
> >
> > But why the white suit - Coetzee's D. didn't
> invent that and it
> > doesn't seem to go with Pavel's station in his
> Petersburg life.
> > (Btw, what was Pavel's situation?) Were white
> suits popular in
> > Europe ca. 1860? Mark Twain famously had one. The
> War and Peace
> > movies always seem to have a guy in a white suit.
> ???
> >
> > Who knows why the fictional Pavel had the white suit?
> I doubt it
> > was as D. told it - I know the whole thing is fiction
> but this
> > little story from D.'s mouth seems to go beyond
> D's usual
> > unreliablity and Coetzee's D. is very unreliable
> - he's between
> > reality and fantasy - perhaps between life and death.
> >
> >
> >
> > * Matryona asks why Pavel killed himself and reveals
> that her
> > mother (Anna) thinks Pavel killed himself.
> >
> >
> >
> > **********
> >
> > [ Page 75 D. suggests that one cannot succeed at
> suicide, only God
> > has power over life and death.
> >
> > This is another reference to "Demons" where
> Krillov (Krylov?) is
> > going to commit suicide in order have the kind of
> "free will" which
> > goes against God - the power over life and death - he
> wants to
> > become God.
> >
> > [ D. goes on to explain that Pavel was giving God an
> ultimatum of
> > sorts, "If you love me you will save me"
> and betting that God
> > would. But God didn't. "Perhaps God does
> not like to be tempted."
> > or "Perhaps God does not hear very well." ]
> >
> > * And here's D. and Dostoevsky (and
> >
> > [ D. motions to Matryona to sit on the bed and puts
> his arm around
> > her. "He can feel her trembling. He strokes her
> hair, her temples." ]
> >
> > **********
> >
> > [ Page 76. Finally Matryona balls her fists and sobs
> freely. ]
> >
> > * again, like a small child,
> >
> > [ Matryona "Why did he have to die?" D.
> wants to say he didn't
> > die, that he's here, "I am he." But
> he cannot.]
> >
> > * the man is drifting seriously out of reality - he
> is starting to
> > believe he is Pavel but still knows this is not really
> true, it
> > would scare Matryona - why doesn't he say it?
> He's playing more
> > than one dangerous game.
> >
> > [ "If only the seed could have been taken out
> of the body, even a
> > single seed, and given a home." And he thinks of
> the Hindu Shiva's
> > seed being drawn out of his dead body.]
> >
> >
> http://www.bhagavadgitausa.com.cnchost.com/KALI.h9.jpg
> >
> > * If D. is Pavel, then can he impregnate Matryona?
> (is this what
> > his thoughts are driving at?)
> >
> >
> >
> > [Now D. imagines Matryona "in her ecstasy."
> and then, "of a
> > baby, dead, buried in an iron coffin beneath the
> snow-piled
> > earth..." and he stops the
> "violation," although "she might as
> > well be sprawled out naked." ]
> >
> > * He takes the ideas as far as he can take them - a
> baby dead and
> > buried - theirs? And he suddenly abandons the idea of
> seducing
> > Matryona.
> >
> > [ "She is prostituting the Virgin" as the
> men who visit child
> > prostitutes say. They see something maidenly beneath
> the garish
> > paint and it outrages them, they need to go so far as
> to put that
> > child's life in danger." ]
> >
> > Another incredibly compelling visual.
> >
> > ******
> > [page 77 But D.'s "vision, the fit, the
> rictus of the
> > imagination, passes."]
> >
> > * interesting variation of terms; is this vision a
> seizure of
> > sorts? Has there been an opening of the imagination?
> Are there
> > other sorts of visions?
> >
> > * and is D. cannibalizing the lives of his loved ones
> for stories?
> >
> > [ Matryona asks about making a shrine in the room but
> D. demurs -
> > he is only staying a short time but his mourning for
> Pavel will go
> > on forever. And he may also mourn Matyona forever, but
> it may be
> > only a bit too soon to tell. ]
> >
> > ************
> >
> > [Page 78 Matryona asks to light a candle for Pavel
> and keep it
> > burning. "So he won't be in the dark."
> She does this and then
> > "returns to the bed and rests her head on his
> arm." ... "He can
> > feel the soft young bones fold, one over another, as a
> bird's wing
> > folds." ]
> >
> > Yes, Mr. D. she is so very vulnerable, crushable -
> don't go there.
> >
> >
> >
> > Bekah
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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