Is Entropy Natural?

[braam van bruggen]

I don't think closed systems are possible, either. I may be wrong, of 
course.

Braam
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: kita douglas
  To: Lawrence Bryan
  Cc: David Morris ; Henry ; Pynchon Liste
  Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:23 PM
  Subject: Re: Is Entropy Natural?


  Definitely not a scientist but I'm perplexed about entropy applying mainly 
to 'closed' or 'isolated' systems. How many systems are really 'closed' and 
if they are, don't they seem sort of irrelevant to the bulk of life lived in 
open systems? What is a closed system anyways? Is that even possible?

  Kita


  On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 7:14 PM, Lawrence Bryan <lebryan at speakeasy.net> 
wrote:


    I  recall taking a basic biology class with a professor who emphasized 
the dynamics of life and energy. I had about 3 minutes left on my mid-term 
when I noticed there was one more question on the back. "Discuss entropy and 
life." Jeez, an essay question to end the midterm. No time to work out any 
sort of well organized, thoughtful answer. I wrote,

    "Life is but an eddy in the stream of entropy."

    It was enough for full credit on that question.

    Lawrence



    On Oct 28, 2008, at 12:41 PM, David Morris wrote:


      Does this article give examples of instances **non-biological
      systems** "[not] displaying disorganization and decay but [instead]
      self-organization and growth?"

      I have never thought that biological systems were subject to the laws
      of thermodynamics.  Biological systems might be seen as in constant
      struggle to survive despite the ever-present and ever-changing threats
      presented it by thermodynamic systems.  They might be seen as
      anti-thermodynamic.

      Any scientists in the house?

      David Morris


      On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 12:31 PM, Henry <scuffling at gmail.com> wrote:

        http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=how-nature-breaks-the-second-law
        "despite its empirical success, the second law often seems 
paradoxical. The proposition that systems steadily run down seems at odds 
with the many instances in nature not only of disorganization and decay but 
also of self-organization and growth. In addition, the original derivation 
of the second law has serious theoretical shortcomings. By all rights, the 
law should not apply as widely as it does."