Very Tenuously P: London ...

[Paul Mackin]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joseph Tracy" <brook7 at sover.net>
To: <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 1:37 PM
Subject: Very Tenuously P: London ...


>I am not so naive that I do not recognize the need for a sound credit 
>system

.The need is for SOME credit system.   Sound is better than unsound but 
right now the only credit system we've got is not functioning and has to be 
fixed. Otherwise we will all suffer and the wage and salary workers will 
suffer more than the bonus takers.


 But when people  buy debt and then borrow money based on that
> debt to buy  more debt. and a country's productive economy shrinks  away 
> because all the money goes into lucrative systems of incestuous  usury and 
> betmaking that is obviously not sound.   There are lots of  banks who did 
> not engage in high risk stuff and they still need to  loan money. Let the 
> economy shift to smaller local economies  unsupported by armies and tax 
> money given to big banks so they can  loan it to we the people at 
> interest. If we need big banks let's set  up our own national bank/s and 
> let the peoples money earn interest.   And let's take away all citizenship 
> rights from fictional corporate  entities so they don't buy the Congress.
>
> At its best borrowing should work to maximize productivity,  competition, 
> quality,  overall prosperity and a shared stake in that  prosperity.  In 
> other words borrowing is one component of a sound  system which is really 
> what you are saying too. But it is not a  foundation; it is a tool. And 
> there is a very big problem with a  certain kind of borrowing. The global 
> economy is currently borrowing ( perhaps stealing is equally apt) its 
> productive capacity from the  finite and up to this point relatively cheap 
> fossil fuels,  particularly oil and gas.  It is also built on  extreme 
> exploitation  of people and resources via surrogate overlords;  that is 
> the rich  are borrowing from the poor with with promissory notes whose 
> value is  pretty dubious at this point.  All of these systems are emitting 
> high  levels of ecological. social, and economic toxins. We have 
> externalized costs until we are on islands of comfort in the middle  of 
> wastelands made by the machinery of capitalism.
>
> The problem here is not that we are bailing out a sound banking  system 
> that serves the common interests of humanity , but that we are  bailing 
> out the empire's privateers to prop up a suction up and  trickle down 
> economic model which is just  as reliant on war, theft,  addiction and 
> slavery today as it was during the heyday of the  British East India 
> Company.

It would be nice if there was a button to press to temporarily shut down the 
economy while all the reforms needed could be enacted.

>
>
>> Paul has it exactly right.
>>
>> "and borrowing is not a sound economic model"
>>
>> Borrowing is very much a sound economic model. The problem is a 
>> combination of greed, bad judgement and a lack of integrity. No  system 
>> based on debt works without the affirmative qualities of  those three 
>> foundational precepts. Good character on the part of  *both* borrower and 
>> lender are essential to the integrity of the  transaction and the health 
>> of the system. From a regulatory  perspective a willingness to vigorously 
>> enforce the law, not pursue  policy, is equally essential.
>>
>>
>