Ch 15

[Joseph Tracy]

On Apr 14, 2009, at 10:39 AM, Robin Landseadel wrote:

> Somehow I'm reminded of Anna Russell's line [concerning Der Ring  
> des Nibelungen] that in Opera you can do anything you like, as long  
> as you sing it. Es Posible!
>
I repeat.  What is shameful to write or express  in music that is not  
also shamelessly and successfully written or expressed in essays,  
speeches, graphic  imagery, poetry,  stories etc.?  Nonsense is  
enjoyed and respected by many in every medium, written, spoken,  
heard  etc.

Can anyone give me an example of  a single bit of nonsense that has  
only been accepted through the medium of music?
>>
>> On Apr 14, 2009, at 8:50 AM, Henry Musikar wrote:
>>
>>> Fol-de-rol, and fiddle-de-dee!  Nonsense! Huxley was right.  In  
>>> the quoted
>>> passage, Huxley was not suggesting that novels are pure, but only  
>>> that music
>>> could be absolute, sheer "nonsense," and still be enjoyed and even
>>> respected.  And in my opinion, movies and TV are not too far  
>>> behind in that
>>> respect.
>>>
>>> Na-na-na, na-na-na, hey-hey, goodbye!
>>>
>>> Henry Mu
>>> http://astore.amazon.com/tdcoccamsaxe-20/
>>>
>> I hear him saying it is particularly easy to attach  nonsensical   
>> commercial propaganda to music and have it retain "intellectual   
>> conviction" .  I think this is not a meaningful insight. There is  
>> no important intellectual conviction that Pepsi's got a lot to  
>> give, and what you end up with is a rather more obvious argument   
>> that commercial appeals are enhanced by aesthetic pleasure.  OK  
>> and what does this say about music?   What is the meaning of the  
>> word advantage( put in a favorable or superior position) .  
>> Advantage over what? What is shameful to write or express  in  
>> music that is not also shamelessly and successfully written or  
>> expressed in essays, speeches, graphic  imagery, poetry,  stories  
>> etc.?  Nonsense is enjoyed and respected by many in every medium,  
>> written, spoken, heard  etc.
>>> And in my opinion, movies and TV are not too far behind in that
>>> respect.
>> In terms of money invested, movies and TV are way ahead, for the  
>> obvious reason that they can use all the  aesthetically  
>> pleasurable elements of graphic design , story, dramatic action,  
>> dialogue and music in a skillfully arranged package.
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Joseph Tracy
>>>
>>> On Apr 13, 2009, at 12:03 PM, Dave Monroe wrote:
>>>
>>>> "For the commercial propagandist, as for his colleagues in the  
>>>> fields
>>>> of politics and religion, music possesses yet another advantage.
>>>> Nonsense which it would be shameful for a reasonable being to  
>>>> write,
>>>> speak or hear spoken can be sung or listened to by that same  
>>>> rational
>>>> being with pleasure and even with a kind of intellectual
>>>> conviction...."
>>>>
>>>> --Aldous Huxley, Brave New World Revisited (1959)
>>>
>>> I find this a bit snobbish on Huxley's part, since novels  often
>>> serve the same propagandistic purposes, and nonsense is foisted in
>>> every medium. My POV would be that the problem he describes is more
>>> about the different motives behind art  or commercial
>>> entertainment.   Kinda weird that Huxley has this classical wariness
>>> of the ecstatic, but ends up writing a book length commercial for
>>> mescaline.
>>>
>>>