You Are Being Lied To About Pirates by their supporters

[Joseph Tracy]

Sorry Heny, but I  certainly did read your post and responded to  
things you said and questions you ask . It is you who deliberately  
distorts my post. I never once justified strong man rule, or anyone's  
criminal behavior. I simply noted that criminal violence is often  
responded to in kind and that justice requires that the criminal  
actions of those who have violated the Somalis have to be part of a  
just solution. Your straw man argument won't fly. Stop putting words  
in my mouth, please.

And do you include the Creeks, and the Cherokee and the Sioux as  
nations taken over by strong men like Andy Jackson, a greedy land  
thieving warlord..  What about Mossadegh or the people who lived in  
Palestine for over a thousand years? As far as Cambodia, is it really  
so simple as a bad man convincing Buddhists it would be good to go on  
a rampage of mass murder. What about the extensive bombing By Nixon  
Kissinger and the many warnings that this would produce violent and  
uncontrollable results? I am a quaker. I abhor violence.  From the  
pacifist perspective, the  solution to violence is not retributive  
violence  but the just distribution of power and wealth , the equal  
application of law, and commitment to live harmoniously  with the  
earth and each other.

  Along with Evil individual leaders History is also full of bullying  
empires that engage in massive theft and ethnic cleansing, and then  
when people fight back or even ask for legal process , call them  
pirates, and terrorists, rebels, and heathen, and infidels, and  
Christ-Killers and law -breakers.   Do you see "bad men", "That  
simple." leading the mass murders of the Iraq Invasion and  
Occupation?  Isn't a system that consistently produces such bad men  
itself seriously flawed?

All I am saying is that any system of international law will be a  
mockery if it does not make all nations accountable to the same  
fundamental principles and code of conduct..
On Apr 18, 2009, at 8:19 AM, Henry Musikar wrote:

> Passion and desire for a more fair world don't give you license to  
> conflate
> one bad story with another.  Joseph, why did you include my message  
> below.
> It doesn't sound like you read it, and you certainly don't address it.
>
> Many countries over the years have been taken over by strong men who
> promised the world, but delivered nothing but death.  That simple.   
> Bad men,
> e.g. Pol Pot, have always given reasons for their need for criminal  
> acts.
> As I suggested in a previous message, revolution is unfortunately  
> usually a
> matter of bloodshed, followed by a no better or worse but  
> necessarily more
> powerful regime, so choose your revolutions well.
>
> The pirates, and they are pirates, aren't about interdiction of  
> toxic loads.
> They have huge ships that they use to waylay other vessels and get  
> money
> from any third party who will pay.  Lionizing evil only hurts the  
> weak and
> those that do the lionizing, e.g. hysterical press accounts whose  
> effect
> does no better for a country like Somalia than does Fox "News."
>
> The insufficiency of help for the poor of Somalia will not be  
> remedied by
> the pirates or by forgetting that Robin Hood, a fictional  
> character, by the
> way, did more than rob from the rich. God save the good from the  
> idiots, who
> I can only hope actually know not what they do, and are not in reality
> knowingly working for the bad.  OBA has more than a few words to  
> say on that
> subject, by the way.
>
> Henry Mu
> Sr. IT Consultant
> http://astore.amazon.com/tdcoccamsaxe-20/
> http://tinyurl.com/342april09/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joseph Tracy
> Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 12:05 AM
> To: Henry Musikar
> Subject: Re: NP: You Are Being Lied To About Pirates
>
> Mr Musikar
> I have heard several sources asserting the dumping of toxic and
> nuclear waste in Somali waters; these are accompanied by reports of
> sickness and death caused by the exposure of coastal Somalis. I have
> also heard several Somali and other sources describing illegal
> fishing in Somali waters seriously depleting lobster and shrimp
> supplies . They have been reported by people who have in recent years
> gotten things right when the Times and more conservative "news"
> sources had hired liars  as "journalists"and the MSM was giving voice
> to Generals funded by the Pentagon. You doubt the accuracy of the
> reports about Somalia, but what are your sources? Why are you
> credible? You have provided no research, only opinions.  Enough  with
> the  black and white cartoons. When people are pushed by criminal
> behavior they often respond in kind and often without hitting the
> deserving targets.  If toxic dumping  is part of the picture and
> other criminal behavior against Somalia, that puts some very
> important cards on the table, and a full accounting of  these things
> must be part of any attempt at justice.  Let him that is without sin
> cast the first stone.
>
> What do you mean, you don't want another stupid revolution? Do you
> mean the one against the British, the ones against the kings of
> Europe, the failed attempt to secede from the US. The ones in
> Nicaragua? Are you actually calling the 60's revolution to end the
> war in Vietnam , give equal rights to all citizens including people
> of color, Jews,  women ,  gay etc., and restore constitutional
> protection for political dissent, stupid?  What was so stupid about
> that?  Do you think the revolution in academia was stupid to begin to
> include everyone in the study  of history and culture?
>
> The most seriously stupid revolution I recall was the Ray Gun
> revolution , and the return of the Robber Barons  ala Milton
> Friedman; now that was stupid  revolution.
>
> History is full of
> On Apr 17, 2009, at 9:25 PM, Henry Mu
>
>> Laura, these aren't guys in rowboats somehow commandeering
>> commercial vessels.  These are well-funded assholes, terrorizing
>> sailors!  Sorry, but they aren't the underdogs; if you're prepared
>> to do wrong things, you have an unfair, cowardly, criminal
>> advantage over those that aren't.  Not all criminals are deserving
>> of sympathy.  Doing something illegal isn't necessarily wrong, but
>> it sure as hell isn't necessarily right! There are bad "good-guys"
>> and good "bad-guys" on all sides, bad acts are bad unless proven
>> otherwise!
>>
>> Henry Mu
>> Sr. IT Consultant
>> http://astore.amazon.com/tdcoccamsaxe-20/
>> http://tinyurl.com/342april09/
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Laura Kelber
>>
>> This isn't about conflicting facts, it's about conflicting
>> perspectives.  The US Navy versus some guys in rowboats from a
>> devastated colonial reject of a nation?  Yeah, I'll take the naive
>> commie-dupe side every time.  And no, of course I wouldn't want my
>> kids to be captured by Somali pirates.  I wouldn't want them
>> drafted by the US armed forces either.  More commie dupery on my
>> part.  Perhaps you think the US should blast those Somali
>> freebooters off the planet.  After all, they're doing something
>> (gasp) ILLEGAL.  While they're at it, maybe the US forces of good
>> (unprosecuted waterboarders and all) should raid the illegal pot
>> plantations of Northern California. Brock Vond lives!
>>
>> Laura
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Henry Mu
>>> Sent: Apr 17, 2009 6:03 PM
>>> To: 'Pynchon Liste' <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>>> Subject: RE: NP: You Are Being Lied To About Pirates
>>>
>>> NO thank you for this!  I could have made it all up myself, and it
>>> would have been more reasonable/believable. Occam's razor,
>>> anyone?  Plato's cave?  If it smells like shit, it ain't Shinola!
>>>
>>> If you don't believe (mainstream) news outlets, then why do you
>>> believe particular outliers?  Why is leftwing.com given a pass,
>>> and rightwing.com an automatic fail? This is where we need to ask
>>> for more information, and without reporting that is at least
>>> internally reasonable/logical, ask for more information!  I don't
>>> want another stupid revolution.
>>>
>>> Meat, the New Boss (same as the old boss)!
>>>
>>> Henry Mu
>>> Sr. IT Consultant
>>> http://astore.amazon.com/tdcoccamsaxe-20/
>>> http://tinyurl.com/342april09/