NP: You Are Being Lied To About Pirates

[Joseph Tracy]

You are the one who brought up Pol Pot, Henry . Oh how quickly they  
forget.
On Apr 18, 2009, at 4:14 PM, Henry Musikar wrote:


> I will suggest once more, and on my part hopefully only once more,  
> Joseph,
> that you have again failed to actually address anything with which  
> your
> message purports to disagree and would attempt to correct, were it  
> addressed
> and wrong.
>
> Nobody was discussing the wrongdoings of the USA, Idi Amin, or  
> Genghis Khan.
> The point being discussed was whether "you are being lied to about the
> pirates" and by who.  Hitler and Bush's crimes against humanity  
> shed little,
> if any, light on that subject.  I find it difficult to understand  
> how anyone
> who is capable of approaching Pynch-Lit with the open eyes  
> necessary for
> appreciating it's nuanced politics can have so much difficulty  
> parsing email
> messages.
>
> Henry Mu
> Sr. IT Consultant
> http://astore.amazon.com/tdcoccamsaxe-20/
> http://tinyurl.com/342april09/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joseph Tracy
>
> Sorry Heny, but I  certainly did read your post and responded to
> things you said and questions you ask . It is you who deliberately
> distorts my post. I never once justified strong man rule, or anyone's
> criminal behavior. I simply noted that criminal violence is often
> responded to in kind and that justice requires that the criminal
> actions of those who have violated the Somalis have to be part of a
> just solution. Your straw man argument won't fly. Stop putting words
> in my mouth, please.
>
> And do you include the Creeks, and the Cherokee and the Sioux as
> nations taken over by strong men like Andy Jackson, a greedy land
> thieving warlord..  What about Mossadegh or the people who lived in
> Palestine for over a thousand years? As far as Cambodia, is it really
> so simple as a bad man convincing Buddhists it would be good to go on
> a rampage of mass murder. What about the extensive bombing By Nixon
> Kissinger and the many warnings that this would produce violent and
> uncontrollable results? I am a quaker. I abhor violence.  From the
> pacifist perspective, the  solution to violence is not retributive
> violence  but the just distribution of power and wealth , the equal
> application of law, and commitment to live harmoniously  with the
> earth and each other.
>
>   Along with Evil individual leaders History is also full of bullying
> empires that engage in massive theft and ethnic cleansing, and then
> when people fight back or even ask for legal process , call them
> pirates, and terrorists, rebels, and heathen, and infidels, and
> Christ-Killers and law -breakers.   Do you see "bad men", "That
> simple." leading the mass murders of the Iraq Invasion and
> Occupation?  Isn't a system that consistently produces such bad men
> itself seriously flawed?
>
> All I am saying is that any system of international law will be a
> mockery if it does not make all nations accountable to the same
> fundamental principles and code of conduct..
> On Apr 18, 2009, at 8:19 AM, Henry Mu wrote:
>
>
>> Passion and desire for a more fair world don't give you license to
>> conflate
>> one bad story with another.  Joseph, why did you include my message
>> below.
>> It doesn't sound like you read it, and you certainly don't address  
>> it.
>>
>> Many countries over the years have been taken over by strong men who
>> promised the world, but delivered nothing but death.  That simple.
>> Bad men,
>> e.g. Pol Pot, have always given reasons for their need for criminal
>> acts.
>> As I suggested in a previous message, revolution is unfortunately
>> usually a
>> matter of bloodshed, followed by a no better or worse but
>> necessarily more
>> powerful regime, so choose your revolutions well.
>>
>> The pirates, and they are pirates, aren't about interdiction of
>> toxic loads.
>> They have huge ships that they use to waylay other vessels and get
>> money
>> from any third party who will pay.  Lionizing evil only hurts the
>> weak and
>> those that do the lionizing, e.g. hysterical press accounts whose
>> effect
>> does no better for a country like Somalia than does Fox "News."
>>
>> The insufficiency of help for the poor of Somalia will not be
>> remedied by
>> the pirates or by forgetting that Robin Hood, a fictional
>> character, by the
>> way, did more than rob from the rich. God save the good from the
>> idiots, who
>> I can only hope actually know not what they do, and are not in  
>> reality
>> knowingly working for the bad.  OBA has more than a few words to
>> say on that
>> subject, by the way.
>>
>> Henry Mu
>> Sr. IT Consultant
>> http://astore.amazon.com/tdcoccamsaxe-20/
>> http://tinyurl.com/342april09/
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joseph Tracy
>> Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 12:05 AM
>> To: Henry Musikar
>> Subject: Re: NP: You Are Being Lied To About Pirates
>>
>> Mr Musikar
>> I have heard several sources asserting the dumping of toxic and
>> nuclear waste in Somali waters; these are accompanied by reports of
>> sickness and death caused by the exposure of coastal Somalis. I have
>> also heard several Somali and other sources describing illegal
>> fishing in Somali waters seriously depleting lobster and shrimp
>> supplies . They have been reported by people who have in recent years
>> gotten things right when the Times and more conservative "news"
>> sources had hired liars  as "journalists"and the MSM was giving voice
>> to Generals funded by the Pentagon. You doubt the accuracy of the
>> reports about Somalia, but what are your sources? Why are you
>> credible? You have provided no research, only opinions.  Enough  with
>> the  black and white cartoons. When people are pushed by criminal
>> behavior they often respond in kind and often without hitting the
>> deserving targets.  If toxic dumping  is part of the picture and
>> other criminal behavior against Somalia, that puts some very
>> important cards on the table, and a full accounting of  these things
>> must be part of any attempt at justice.  Let him that is without sin
>> cast the first stone.
>>
>> What do you mean, you don't want another stupid revolution? Do you
>> mean the one against the British, the ones against the kings of
>> Europe, the failed attempt to secede from the US. The ones in
>> Nicaragua? Are you actually calling the 60's revolution to end the
>> war in Vietnam , give equal rights to all citizens including people
>> of color, Jews,  women ,  gay etc., and restore constitutional
>> protection for political dissent, stupid?  What was so stupid about
>> that?  Do you think the revolution in academia was stupid to begin to
>> include everyone in the study  of history and culture?
>>
>> The most seriously stupid revolution I recall was the Ray Gun
>> revolution , and the return of the Robber Barons  ala Milton
>> Friedman; now that was stupid  revolution.
>>
>> History is full of
>> On Apr 17, 2009, at 9:25 PM, Henry Mu
>>
>>
>>> Laura, these aren't guys in rowboats somehow commandeering
>>> commercial vessels.  These are well-funded assholes, terrorizing
>>> sailors!  Sorry, but they aren't the underdogs; if you're prepared
>>> to do wrong things, you have an unfair, cowardly, criminal
>>> advantage over those that aren't.  Not all criminals are deserving
>>> of sympathy.  Doing something illegal isn't necessarily wrong, but
>>> it sure as hell isn't necessarily right! There are bad "good-guys"
>>> and good "bad-guys" on all sides, bad acts are bad unless proven
>>> otherwise!
>>>
>>> Henry Mu
>>> Sr. IT Consultant
>>> http://astore.amazon.com/tdcoccamsaxe-20/
>>> http://tinyurl.com/342april09/
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Laura Kelber
>>>
>>> This isn't about conflicting facts, it's about conflicting
>>> perspectives.  The US Navy versus some guys in rowboats from a
>>> devastated colonial reject of a nation?  Yeah, I'll take the naive
>>> commie-dupe side every time.  And no, of course I wouldn't want my
>>> kids to be captured by Somali pirates.  I wouldn't want them
>>> drafted by the US armed forces either.  More commie dupery on my
>>> part.  Perhaps you think the US should blast those Somali
>>> freebooters off the planet.  After all, they're doing something
>>> (gasp) ILLEGAL.  While they're at it, maybe the US forces of good
>>> (unprosecuted waterboarders and all) should raid the illegal pot
>>> plantations of Northern California. Brock Vond lives!
>>>
>>> Laura
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>> From: Henry Mu
>>>> Sent: Apr 17, 2009 6:03 PM
>>>> To: 'Pynchon Liste' <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>>>> Subject: RE: NP: You Are Being Lied To About Pirates
>>>>
>>>> NO thank you for this!  I could have made it all up myself, and it
>>>> would have been more reasonable/believable. Occam's razor,
>>>> anyone?  Plato's cave?  If it smells like shit, it ain't Shinola!
>>>>
>>>> If you don't believe (mainstream) news outlets, then why do you
>>>> believe particular outliers?  Why is leftwing.com given a pass,
>>>> and rightwing.com an automatic fail? This is where we need to ask
>>>> for more information, and without reporting that is at least
>>>> internally reasonable/logical, ask for more information!  I don't
>>>> want another stupid revolution.
>>>>
>>>> Meat, the New Boss (same as the old boss)!
>>>>
>>>> Henry Mu
>>>> Sr. IT Consultant
>>>> http://astore.amazon.com/tdcoccamsaxe-20/
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/342april09/
>>>>