Forgiveness

[Bekah]

Catching up on old posts,  Ian?

I agree that the concept of grace is central to Pynchon - not to  
Proust.   Love in a wide variety of forms is a major theme in Proust  
and I don't think he deals with grace (unless memory is a kind of  
grace).     I'm curious as to what part love (in any form) plays in  
Pynchon - has it ever been discussed directly?   I can't remember as  
how it saves or redeems anyone - more likely than not it gets them in  
trouble.

Bekah


On Apr 26, 2009, at 3:32 AM, Ian Livingston wrote:

> Ah, when someone brings up love, I can't help that my thoughts ask,
> "Of what sort?"  The word has so many meanings.
> And what happened to the notion of grace?  I seem to recall a probing
> into that concept some time ago.  Grace figures large in Pynchon.
>
> On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Paul Mackin  
> <mackin.paul at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Bekah <Bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net>  
>> wrote:
>>> I have to brag that I actually finished "In Search of Lost Time"  
>>> this year.
>>>  A friend and I did a mutual support reading going at the rate of  
>>> a book a
>>> month from May to December.   I'm so surprised.  (lol)
>>>
>>> Love didn't save Marcel because no matter how hard he tried to  
>>> hang on to
>>> her,  it trapped him.
>>>
>>> Bekah
>>>
>>
>> Congrats, Bekah.  No mean accomplishment.
>>
>> Proust's narrator seemed to think the greatest happiness consisted in
>> directly experiencing the past through unconscious memory. Whenever
>> that happened he was ecstatic.
>>
>> But why all GOOD memories.  I have unconscious memories now and then
>> that make me physically shudder. If I were Hunter Thompson I'd fire
>> any weapon at my disposal at them.
>>
>> Fortunately there are whole weeks when this doesn't happen.
>>
>> P.
>>
>>
>>
>> i
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 23, 2008, at 7:09 AM, Paul Mackin wrote:
>>>
>>>> I might have added that Proust also had an interesting take on  
>>>> love,
>>>> although his narrator was principally concerned with love as the
>>>> desire to possess.
>>>>
>>>> You couldn't let the love object know your true feelings or else
>>>> they'd start taking you foregranted.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> More or less.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 7:36 AM, Paul Mackin  
>>>> <mackin.paul at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Basically, I was thinking of ultimates. After all is said and  
>>>>>>> done-
>>>>>>> what's left? What really matters? It's glaringly obvious. No one
>>>>>>> gets saved, except for another chance to die. Only one way
>>>>>>> affords salvation and it's not given, it's giving- the  
>>>>>>> progressiven
>>>>>>> someone else. Dope, booze, weed, acid, religion, eating, sex,
>>>>>>> making a killing in the market, bludgeoning defenseless video
>>>>>>> characters to oblivion, shooting game if that's your ticket- are
>>>>>>> all well worn paths to satisfaction, fleeting as it may be, but
>>>>>>> nothing beats loving. Ultimately, it's the only way out of an
>>>>>>> otherwise meaniingless life, isn't it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Love makes the world go 'round!
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Freud saw practical problems in loving thy enemy--a dangerous  
>>>>> thing to
>>>>> do sometimes (I think he said in Civilization and its  
>>>>> Discontents).
>>>>>
>>>>> Lenin on the other hand is supposed to have said on his death  
>>>>> bed that
>>>>> he wished he had had ten St. Fransises.
>>>>>
>>>>> Love is a puzzle.
>>>>>
>>>>> P.
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>