lagan or ligan/: Carl Schmitt: Land vs. Sea

[Mark Kohut]

wunderbar!...and given P's Gaia consciusness, who knows what relevance?

--- On Thu, 8/13/09, Kai Frederik Lorentzen <lorentzen at hotmail.de> wrote:

> From: Kai Frederik Lorentzen <lorentzen at hotmail.de>
> Subject: RE: lagan or ligan/: Carl Schmitt: Land vs. Sea
> To: markekohut at yahoo.com, pynchon-l at waste.org, rpmahnke at gmail.com
> Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 2:00 PM
> 
> Mark Kohut schrieb:
> 
> >
> > Maritime law, mentioned in IV, is perhaps the oldest,
> most convoluted, most deeply intertwined with the past,
> since the oceans were
> > there before
> > the lands were 'nationalized', so to speak.
> >
> > So, lawyers and paralegal friends have told me...
> >
> 
> Now, in terms of the continental law tradition, 'maritime
> law' was, after the 'discovery' of the New World, kinda
> problem:
> 
> Land vs. Sea!
> 
> Do perhaps check out the third chapter ("Freedom of the
> Sea") in the third part of "The Nomos of the Earth"
> (Telos Press) by in/famous CS:
> 
> http://books.google.de/books?id=Qayg5HqaY18C&dq=The+Nomos+of+the+Earth+%26+Carl+Schmitt&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=kB8KLDL8Xn&sig=XDtR1OQnovOtHITpclZ4wlXllL8&hl=de&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result#PPP1,M1
> 
> (Yes, the man did really racist things --- kicking Jews out
> of the German lawsphere --- between 1933 and 1936, was for
> parts
> of his lifetime a clinical paranoid, and is nevertheless a
> brilliant law-theorist and political philosopher; if you're
> interested in 'Pynchon and International Law' or somesuch
> you will, also re: GR's Air-Terror, find many gems in "The
> Nomos of
> the Earth"; for a Jewish interpretation of Schmitt's
> Politische Theologie see "ad Carl Schmitt", Merve-Verlag:
> Berlin, by Jacob Taubes;
> and then there's one American book we sometimes discuss
> here Schmitt did in fact know very well, it's "The Education
> of Henry Adams")
> 
> "Das MEER bleibt außerhalb jeder spezifisch staatlichen
> Raumordnung. (...) So ist die im 16. Jahrhundert
> entstandene
> europa-zentrische Weltordnung nach Land und See in ZWEI
> verschiedene globale Ordnungen auseinandergetreten. Zum
> ersten Mal
> in der Geschichte der Menschheit wird der Gegensatz von
> LAND und MEER die weltumfassende Grundlage eines globalen
> Völkerrechts.
> Jetzt handelt es sich nicht mehr um Meeresbecken wie das
> Mittelmeer, die Adria oder die Ostsee, sondern um den
> ganzen
> geographisch vermessenen [Hallo: 'M&D'!] Erdball und
> die Weltozeane. Dieser völlig neue Gegensatz von Land und
> Meer bestimmt
> das Gesamtbild eines jus publicum Europaeum, das einer von
> Europa aus entdeckten, wissenschaftlich-geographischen
> erkannten Erde
> ihren Nomos zu geben suchte. Hier stehen sich demnach zwei
> universale und globale Ordnungen gegenüber, die nicht auf
> das Verhältnis
> von universalem und partikulärem Recht gebracht werden
> können [!!]. Jede von ihnen ist universal. Jede hat ihre
> eigenen Begriffe
> von Feind, Krieg und Beute, aber auch von Freiheit [!]. Die
> große völkerrechtliche Gesamtentscheidung des 16. und 17.
> Jahrhunderts
> gipfelte also in einem Gleichgewicht von Land und Meer, in
> dem GEGENÜBER zweier Ordnungen, die erst in ihrem
> spannungsvollen
> Miteinander den Nomos der Erde bestimmten. (...) Das große
> Gleichgewicht von Land und Meer bewirkte ein Gleichgewicht
> der
> kontinentalen Staaten untereinander, verhinderte aber
> gleichzeitig ein maritimes Gleichgewicht der Seemächte
> untereinander.
> Insofern gab es ein kontinentales, aber kein maritimes
> Gleichgewicht."
> (Carl Schmitt: Der Nomos der Erde im Völkerrecht des Jus
> Publicum Europaeum [1950]. Berlin 1997: Duncker &
> Humblot, pp. 143-5.)
> 
> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Schmitt
> 
> Just for the record? Oh well ... there are still some
> things that could be said re: Pynchon/Jackson (Robert H.,
> grandfather of Melanie)/Schmitt ... In Nürnberg, Mr.
> Jackson became --- at least you can read this here and there
> --- kinda fascinated by CS;
> fact is: Carl Schmitt got not, as Jackson had originally
> planed, filed a charge against him yet was upgraded to the
> status of
> an expert-witness. Strange story (true!), my story, her
> story, your story, history ... not bunk ...
> 
> KFL
> 
> 
> >
> > --- On Wed, 8/12/09, Robert Mahnke wrote:
> >
> >> From: Robert Mahnke
> >> Subject: lagan or ligan
> >> To: "P-list"
> >> Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 10:10 AM
> >> It even took several centuries before
> >> the law could make up its mind
> >> about exactly what constituted wreck. The legal
> >> historian Lord Coke,
> >> writing in 1817, defined it thus:
> >>
> >> "Flotsam is when a ship is sunk or otherwise
> perished, and
> >> the goods
> >> float upon the sea. Jetsam is when the ship is in
> >> danger of being
> >> sunk and, to lighten the ship, the goods are cast
> into the
> >> sea, and
> >> afterwards notwithstanding the ship perish. Lagan
> or
> >> ligan is when
> >> the goods are so cast into the sea, and afterwards
> the ship
> >> perishes,
> >> and the goods are so heavy that they sink to the
> bottom;
> >> and the
> >> mariners to the intent to have them again, tie to
> them a
> >> buoy, or
> >> cork, or such other thing that will not sink, so
> that
> >> they may find
> >> them again."
> >>
> >> Bella Bathurst, The Wreckers 9-10 (Houghton
> Mifflin,
> >> 2005).
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>