Zoyd

[Mark Kohut]

Why, may I jump into the crossfire and ask, is this an either-or, so-unPynchonian decision? 

I will appeal to the recent Vineland reread which all could not attend to suggest we all explored these questions in depth with lots of citations. 

He is sympathetic in so many ways. He is also part of the problem of 80s America via his
character flaws in this general dystopia, despite the 'happy ending', do not forget......(read TRP on the curious possibly happy ending of 1984).

His TV "work' as he lives off the Gov't cannot, I wrote, be seen as positive in TRPs worldview.P is consistently anti-State. 

That ZOYD will not get over Frenesi, is the embodiment of his being stuck in the past, imho. C'mon, it is decades; his 'love' is not dependent on what he learns about her character; about the way she treats him. Most normal people's 'love' is, over time.

ZOYD is the effective failure of the hippie ethos if it tried to get married and raise children in America, among other things. But, of course, society's fascist structures smothered it. Undsoweiter.

--- On Sat, 8/22/09, John Carvill <johncarvill at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: John Carvill <johncarvill at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Zoyd
> To: "alice wellintown" <alicewellintown at gmail.com>
> Cc: pynchon-l at waste.org
> Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 5:25 AM
> Well, T, let me just say that it's
> good to have you back, even if I
> rarely agree with what you're saying.
> 
> 
> > He is not portrayed sympathetically.
> 
> Oh yes he is! Oh, come now, you must realise that the way
> Zoyd is
> portrayed at teh start of the book, his 'establishing
> shot', very
> powerfully suggests that the author intends us ti like
> him?
> 
> I know he has his flaws. Well, as I'm sure you know, that's
> one of the
> reasons we like people.
> 
> >Just for a moment, allow that my
> > theory, "VL is about work," is a working theory and
> apply it to Zoyd.
> 
> Your theory was always more interesting when you didn't
> just
> dogmatically hammer it with 'Vineland is about work' over
> and over.
> Certainly a *lot* of Vineland *is* about work, that's
> indisputable.
> 
> > What does Zoyd do? He is a gypsy-roofer and
> ex-musician. He picks up
> > odd jobs. Not bad. He has a kid to support. He's not a
> responsible
> > daddy much of the time, but he's better than nothing.
> Although he's a
> > pothead and he likes jail-bait and he's not the daddy
> any kid with a
> > good daddy would want, he's not a bad man. Dumb and
> stuck in the past,
> > but not evil.
> 
> Dumb is harsh. I think he's a good Dad. Does the best he
> can. Didn't
> abandon his kid like her Mum did. Zoyd wasn't political,
> like Frenesi,
> but he didn't sell out. Complex stuff. But as a father,
> flaws
> notwithstanding, I think he does pretty well.
> 
> >
> >  But he also works for the big bad government.
> 
> NOt really. The public insanity thing is a trap he's caught
> in.
> 
> > What does he do for
> > them? He rats people out
> 
> When?
> 
> 
> >
> > [snip.. a lot of complex stuff...]. Why should
> > we have sympathy for him?
> 
> Because we like him. Because he got pulled into political
> hippiehood
> by a dame who used him then snitched and ran on her own
> kid, for
> starter...
> 
> >  Well, America is a tough place.
> 
> Nokind of an argument that, T. Come on.
> 
> 
> >  If he were simply a rodeo clown, we could forgive
> him and laugh it
> > off. But Zoyd has taken that step to the other side.
> He knows it.
> > That's why Pynchon marries him to Zoyd. And DOC, is a
> Zoyd-Hector in
> > IV. Again, not a sympathetic figure at all.
> 
> Rodeo clown eh? Well you brought a smile to my face with
> that
> reference. You're playing with fire there, as you know.
> Zpyd took a
> step to 'the other side' when he got involved with a
> 'political
> family'. He may never have gotten comfortable on that side
> but he
> stuck to its principles, as best he could.
> 
> As usual, I don't think your argument hangs together, I
> don't see how
> what you have said makes Zoyd unsympathetic. Happy to
> continue
> debating the matter...
> 
>