IVing IV 'indict a bean burrito', p. 277

[alice wellintown]

Who is driving the conversaton? If the objective is sex, it's all
foreplay and Penny takes the initiative here. Larry is, after all, not
like them boyz up in the treehouse at the office so she can, once he
shows her his and she shows him hers, invite him to her place for the
basics: food and sex and weed and human comfort. What has Larry
learned about women? It's 1970, he's learned that its not 1950 and
that women are G-persons too. He stills steps on his dick when he
engages in conversations with females. He's a knight; he looks for
clues, but he doesn't listen. Penny, a career gal, is also shooting in
the dark here because she is not privy to the boyz privy conversations
so she doesn't know what "We've suspect, but can't prove ..." because
she not in the We. Of course, we could describe this situation as
"something shitty they won't do..." but it's actually something shitty
Penny will do and has done, to Larry. While it's clear that the John
Jacob Astors get away with murder while the forgers of mortgage
documents end up in the Tombs, this is not endemic to Nixon Reagan
Bush people but the American way. Life, as Bob Dylan sez, is a Jet
Plane, it moves too fast, love is so simple to quote a phrase. We've
known this all along. Larry's learning it these days.

On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 1:18 AM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
> I think this is a very well reasoned argument and that Doc may be misreading
> the situation as I did. But is there also a sense, or at least a possibility
> that Doc is seeing the situation with excellent clarity on a karmic level.
> Maybe looking for truth/justice and liberation is a reenactment of Quixote's
> madness.  But is it that simple?
> The best Penny can do is be a successful agent of the Nixon Reagan vision of
> justice, that is, to treat the minor criminals as though they were the
>  major criminals and treat the major criminals as though they were gods to
> be appeased with human sacrifices.
> Doc is acting as the agent of something he only partly understands but he is
> calling it karma and he seems to be using that as an internal measure
> instead of money/success/status. He is in fact  another of Pynchon's karmic
> adjustors.
> Also, It is hard to see the bargains Doc makes as unequal. He may be
> steering this conversation as much as Penny is, away from true confessions
> and emotional blackmail toward things more enjoyable for both : the exchange
> of useful information and friendly, mutually desired sexual pleasure.
>
> On Nov 30, 2009, at 8:25 PM, alice wellintown wrote:
>
>> The conversation begins with two Junior G-Persons talking about what
>> one gets out of exploiting the other. The answer the text provides,
>> not only in this scene or for these two alone but for professionals
>> who step on one another to get a better footing on the late-capitalist
>> ladder is, meaningless perquisites and petty comforts, not to mention
>> the envy of those who are a few rungs below. Penny sez, "Maybe you
>> don't want to know." Tannan (not the great literary critic but the
>> great linguist who has written several books on discourse at the work
>> place and conversations between males and females) would argue that
>> Larry is not listening to what Penny is saying. She is saying, "Do you
>> want to know?"  But Larry doesn't listen. To make matters worse, he
>> does what males usually do in such conversations, he treats her
>> discourse like a problem or puzzle to be solved" "Let me guess ..."
>> and of course his conjecture and, to make matters worse, his solution,
>> is not communication or support. Larry steps on her lines. Realizing
>> that she is not in a conversation between to G-Persons, she lets him
>> cannonball into the empty pool. She gets what she wants by pretending
>> to engage in discourse. Larry thinks she needs protection; she's in a
>> bind. She is, after all, a woman. But she is clever. She knows what
>> she wants. She knows how to gets what she wants. Poor Larry. If he
>> would only listen he might understand women and how they use language,
>> but he 's a knight on a quest.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> alice writes:
>>>>
>>>> We can't be sure that Penny is in a
>>>> pinch. Larry is reading her
>>>> wrinkles and earings here but she doesn't say enough to
>>>> support the
>>>> claim that she is being squeezed.
>>>
>>> Nah, you missed this, Alice...when he stated the truth is when
>>> she touched his hand. Tenderly......she was understood without
>>> words......
>>> what could lead to love, but won't.
>>>
>>>
>>> In fact, since Larry
>>>>
>>>> doesn't let her
>>>> finish her statements, and because he assumes the, "I'll
>>>> protect you
>>>> position" here, I read it as Larry's misreading her yet
>>>> again. Larry
>>>> doesn't seem to understand that,  As modern Hamlet
>>>> sez, "Ambition, thy
>>>> name is woman."
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 8:35 AM, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> p. 277 a classic PI novel scene wherein the PI and
>>>>> an insider dialogue it out over information. I say
>>>>
>>>> decently done
>>>>>
>>>>> as Doc tries to find out why the Feds were in Vegas
>>>>
>>>> and, showing
>>>>>
>>>>> his cynical smartness, asks Penny what she is getting
>>>>
>>>> out of it
>>>>>
>>>>> and already knows They have something on her, she
>>>>
>>>> wasn't wanting
>>>>>
>>>>> something from them. So, her betrayal was not just
>>>>
>>>> malignancy but
>>>>>
>>>>> some kind of self-protection.
>>>>>
>>>>> p 277 Penny: a 'world of heartache' does seem to echo
>>>>
>>>> 'world of
>>>>>
>>>>> pain' from Lebowski, yes? Or just a general way of
>>>>
>>>> expression?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>