IV Chapter 17 Thoughts

[Mark Kohut]

Kai writes:
Regarding Doc ("Forget who --- WHAT was he working for anymore?", p. 314):
> This kind of question --- think Slothrop, think Chums, think M&D (the
> characters) - seems always to pop up in a Pynchon novel sooner or later ...

Rich sez he could not have been so ignorant....

yet, He was never so implicated or connected to these largest forces: 

And, thematically, the What question is answered by the presence of Coy and family.....





--- On Tue, 12/8/09, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: IV Chapter 17 Thoughts
> To: "Kai Frederik Lorentzen" <lorentzen at hotmail.de>
> Cc: pynchon-l at waste.org
> Date: Tuesday, December 8, 2009, 12:45 PM
> For one thing I'm coming to think of
> Shasta as the most interesting
> character in the book. Secondly, you noted Doc's epiphany
> about what
> he is working for, but it doesn't seem a guy like Sportello
> would be
> that ignorant of much of the compromising he's been doing
> over the
> years unlike say Slothrop, Mason or Dixon, where their
> eipihanies
> strike me as more believable.
> 
> rich
> 
> On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 7:12 AM, Kai Frederik Lorentzen
> <lorentzen at hotmail.de>
> wrote:
> >
> > Remember that Shasta is connected to Lemuria via Mount
> Shasta.
> >
> > Perhaps that's why her motivations in this novel
> appear 'schizo' and/or
> > 'mysterious.' The following website --- Please note
> that personally I do
> > not believe that there are, these centuries, Lemurians
> or 'Reptile people'
> > or whatnot walking bzw. crawling the planet! --- is
> also interesting,
> > 'cause it mentions a "Bigfoot race of people". So
> perhaps Shasta is closer
> > related to Bigfoot than visible from the novel's text.
> Since the website
> > last got updated in 2007, Pynchon will like have seen
> it during his
> > writing process:
> >
> > http://www.lemurianconnection.com/en/about-mount-shasta.htm
> >
> > Regarding Doc ("Forget who --- WHAT was he working for
> anymore?", p. 314):
> > This kind of question --- think Slothrop, think Chums,
> think M&D (the
> > characters) - seems always to pop up in a Pynchon
> novel sooner or later ...
> >
> > Kai
> >
> >
> > Rich:
> >
> >> It should be noted that Shasta to me is the most
> interesting character
> >> in the chapter--being an actress one wonders about
> her motivations and
> >> the like but she is veritably schizo in Chapter
> 17--coy, honest,
> >> obscene, profound, salacious, angry, scared,
> annoyed, etc. She's very
> >> mysterious. guess you can't ask for more in a
> femme fatale.
> >
> >> The last paragraph notes Doc's mind's foolish
> attempt to find its way
> >> back into some past already gone, but the
> ever-present surf reminds
> >> him of truths whether he wanted to see them or
> not. The truth is
> >> unavoidable and will not be denied.
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------
> >> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 17:53:46 -0500
> >> Subject: IV Chapter 17 Thoughts
> >> From: richard.romeo at gmail.com
> >> To: pynchon-l at waste.org
> >>
> >> Chapter 17 is a turning point in the novel. Many
> things are resolved
> >> or revealed: the Boards are no longer zombies, we
> find out how and why
> >> Coy joined the Vigilantes, namely because he felt
> they gave enough of
> >> a shit while his life was at its lowest, to show
> him aspects of
> >> himself, talents that he would have never
> discovered on his own, a
> >> talent for acting, going undercover. Only too late
> does he realize his
> >> mistake and the bad shit he's brought down on
> himself and those he's
> >> compromised. He's a fake and wants out.
> >> Doc discovers that the reason he is helping Coy is
> that he cannot
> >> escape, cannot cut loose from the people whom Coy
> is probably working
> >> for as well--the police, the feds and the
> Nixonites, the Golden Fang,
> >> and other assorted bad guys (in cahoots, in
> permutations,
> >> combinations)
> >> Shasta explains why she (and others) are attracted
> to a powerful man
> >> like Mickey--they love his brutal and aggressive
> ways, the way he
> >> makes them feel invisible (not a bad thing for her
> one supposes
> >> considering her fear of becoming another Sharon
> Tate.
> >> But I think the most important revelation is said
> by Shasta (she says
> >> she is sorry for zinging him, for being so
> 'actressy') about Doc, Coy,
> >> and even Mickey to some extent. The fact is that
> all these men are
> >> acting out some sort of fantasy about being
> badasses, free from the
> >> straight world, doping, fucking (living off the
> grid in a sense like
> >> Frenesi) but in actual fact are really just
> working for the forces of
> >> repression--Doc's cash customers are folks like
> the developer Crocker
> >> Fenway, Coy is a undercover snitch, and Mickey
> plays the role of the
> >> reformed bad guy, being ever charitable, giving
> shit away, living a
> >> hip lifestyle but in the end returning to his old
> ways with a little
> >> nudge from those bad guys.
> >> It should be noted that Shasta to me is the most
> interesting character
> >> in the chapter--being an actress one wonders about
> her motivations and
> >> the like but she is veritably schizo in Chapter
> 17--coy, honest,
> >> obscene, profound, salacious, angry, scared,
> annoyed, etc. She's very
> >> mysterious. guess you can't ask for more in a
> femme fatale.
> >> The last paragraph notes Doc's mind's foolish
> attempt to find its way
> >> back into some past already gone, but the
> ever-present surf reminds
> >> him of truths whether he wanted to see them or
> not. The truth is
> >> unavoidable and will not be denied.
> >>
>