pynchon-l-digest V2 #6659
Tim Ware
tim at hyperarts.com
Thu Feb 12 22:31:36 CST 2009
Here is what miksaapia's post looked like to many subscribers and in
the archive. I 've politely asked this guy to use plain text for sake
of others, but no success. Perhaps I'm the only who cares about this,
but it's really just a bit of good neighborliness to use plain text. I
understand there some Serious Rebels here, and I appreciate that.
But ...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 20:59:17 +0100
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=E1nos_Sz=E9kely?= <miksaapja at gmail.com>
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?
Re=3A_Pynchon=3A_S=FAlysziv=E1rv=E1ny_=2D_interpreting_OBA_an?= =?
ISO-8859-1?Q?d_Web_2=2E0?=
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Laura,
thanks (again). I'm really indebted to P-listers. In fact I keep
wondering
how anyone could translate GR with a clear conscience before the
advent of
the Internet or, more precisely, Web 2.0.
I mean technically it's just impossible to stand firmly on both sides
of th=
e
pond at the same time, being immersed both in Amerciana and getting the
right Hungarian (etc.) terms. Even the guides won't help you in many
cases.
For example, without YouTube, where it took about 30 secs, it would've
take=
n
me months to fetch the actual *tune *of the Fred Astaire song from that
obscure 1930s movie on page 561. On the other hand, it would have cost
me
days or weeks of library work and finding the right expert just to
translate a single sentence on crystal radio properly, while now it
took m=
e
5 minutes to contact a Hungarian blogger who specializes in that
subject. O=
r
within half an hour I could locate an amiable veteran chief sergeant,
who
served in a Scud unit in western Hungary, and ask him how this and
that par=
t
or action is said in real life (Scuds are ultimately V-2-derived). It
certainly sounds immodest and I haven't read through the large-language
translations (only the German one for occasional reference) but now
that I
think it over, to get this level of fidelity, say, 30 years ago, would
have
taken either a decade's research (weeks or months for hours) or a full
(paid) team.
J=E1nos
2009. febru=E1r 11. 22:08 =EDrta, <kelber at mindspring.com>:
> After the daunting task of translating GR, this should be a snap to
> translate:
>
> CONGRATULATIONS!!
>
> Laura
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: J=E1nos Sz=E9kely <miksaapja at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Feb 11, 2009 7:17 AM
>> To: Dave Monroe <against.the.dave at gmail.com>
>> Cc: pynchon-l at waste.org
>> Subject: Re: Pynchon: S=FAlysziv=E1rv=E1ny
>>
>> It's about my GR translation. The lady from F=FCggetlen
>> H=EDr=FCgyn=F6ks=
=E9g
>> (Independent News Agency) has read the original (a rarity among
>> Hungaria=
n
>> journalists). The text is compressed from a much longer interview,
> intended
>> for absolute beginners.
>>
>> J=E1nos
>>
>>
>> 2009. febru=E1r 11. 12:30 Dave Monroe =EDrta, <against.the.dave at gmail.co
>> =
m>:
>>
>>> M=FBv=E9szet, kult=FAra, sz=F3rakoz=E1s
>>>
>>> Pynchon: S=FAlysziv=E1rv=E1ny
>>> F=FCggetlen H=EDr=FCgyn=F6ks=E9g 2009 febru=E1r 10, kedd
>>>
>>> Harminc=F6t =E9vvel az amerikai publik=E1l=E1s ut=E1n, a Magvet=F5
>>> Kia=
d=F3
>>> gondoz=E1s=E1ban magyarul is megjelent Thomas Pynchon
>>> S=FAlysziv=E1rv=
=E1ny c=EDm=FB
>>> reg=E9nye.
>>>
>>> Az amerikai posztmodern irodalom egyik alapm=FBv=E9nek tartott
>>> reg=E9n=
y
>>> f=F5h=F5se egy m=E1sodik vil=E1gh=E1bor=FAs messi=E1s, akinek
>>> tal=E1ny=
os mereved=E9se
>>> megj=F3solja a n=E1ci rak=E9taisten elj=F6vetel=E9t. A
>>> S=FAlysziv=E1rv=
=E1ny olyan,
>>> mintha egy mozifilmet n=E9zne az olvas=F3, ugyanakkor egy
>>> m=E9rn=F6ki
>>> precizit=E1ssal megszerkesztett eredeti kompoz=EDci=F3 -
>>> nyilatkozta S=
z=E9ky
>>> J=E1nos, a k=F6tet ford=EDt=F3ja.
>>>
>>> Thomas Pynchon a kort=E1rs irodalom egyik legismertebb
>>> rejt=F5zk=F6d=
=F5je. B=E1r
>>> a 72 =E9ves amerikai =EDr=F3 =E9letm=FBve, egyetemi tananyag,
>>> szerz=F5=
k=E9nt ker=FCli
>>> a nyilv=E1noss=E1got, nem jelenik meg d=EDj=E1tad=F3kon, =E9s
>>> tizen=E9=
ves kora =F3ta
>>> nincs r=F3la publikus f=E9nyk=E9p. A Gravity's Rainbow (1973) -
>>> magyar=
ul
>>> nemr=E9giben S=FAlysziv=E1rv=E1ny c=EDmmel megjelent reg=E9nye,
>>> 1974-b=
en elnyerte
>>> Amerika legrangosabb k=F6nyves d=EDj=E1t - a Nemzeti
>>> K=F6nyvd=EDjat. P=
ynchon
>>> neve pedig az=F3ta =FAjra =E9s =FAjra felt=FBnik a Nobel-
>>> v=E1rom=E1nyo=
sok list=E1j=E1n.
>>>
>>> Thomas Pynchon - akit Salman Rushdie egy kritik=E1j=E1ban
>>> "l=E1thatatl=
an
>>> =F6regembernek" nevezett, =E9s akiben "nem m=FAl=F3 vonzalom =E9l
>>> a me=
gt=E9veszt=E9s
>>> ir=E1nt" - n=E9pszer=FB internetes t=E9ma. Sz=E1mos rajong=F3i
>>> tal=E1l=
gat=E1s
>>> sz=FCletett m=E1r arr=F3l, hogy val=F3j=E1ban l=E9tezik-e, avagy
>>> az =
=E1ln=E9v alatt
>>> m=E1s, esetleg t=F6bb =EDr=F3 publik=E1lja m=FBveit. Titokzatos
>>> figur=
=E1ja m=E9g a
>>> Simpson csal=E1d c=EDm=FB, anim=E1ci=F3s sorozatban is felt=FBnt.
>>>
>>> Sz=E9ky J=E1nos arra nem v=E1llalkozott, hogy megv=E1laszolja ezt
>>> a ta=
l=E1nyt,
>>> de a k=FCl=F6nc amerikai =EDr=F3 m=FBveivel r=E9gi ismerets=E9gben
>>> van=
, =F5 ford=EDtotta
>>> le ugyanis a magyarul el=F5sz=F6r 1990-ben megjelent A 49-es t=E9tel
>>> ki=E1lt=E1sa (The Crying of lot 49, 1966) c=EDm=FB Pynchon-
>>> reg=E9nyt i=
s.
>>>
>>> A nemr=E9giben napvil=E1got l=E1tott S=FAlysziv=E1rv=E1nyt h=E1rom
>>> =E9=
vig ford=EDtotta
>>> Sz=E9ky J=E1nos. Egy semmilyen kor=E1bbi irodalmi m=FBh=F6z nem
>>> hasonl=
=EDthat=F3
>>> eredeti kompoz=EDci=F3t tarthat a kez=E9ben az olvas=F3 -
>>> hangs=FAlyoz=
ta a
>>> ford=EDt=F3. Egyfel=F5l rengeteg improviz=E1ci=F3 van ebben a
>>> reg=E9ny=
ben,
>>> m=E1sr=E9szt pedig egy nagyon bonyolult, m=E9rn=F6ki precizit=E1ssal
>>> megszerkesztett "=E9p=EDtm=E9ny". A ford=EDt=F3 szerint a filmes
>>> logik=
=E1val
>>> meg=EDrt reg=E9nyben olyan v=E1lt=E1sok vannak, mintha egy
>>> mozifilmet
>>> "olvasna" a "n=E9z=F5".
>>>
>>> A mulats=E1gos, izgalmas, =E9rdekfesz=EDt=F5 "mazsol=E1kkal"
>>> telesz=F3=
rt k=F6nyv
>>> tr=FCkk=F6sen =FAgy van meg=EDrva, hogy aki elkezdi, ne tudja
>>> abbahagy=
ni,
>>> tette hozz=E1 Sz=E9ky J=E1nos. Ugyanakkor ahhoz, hogy valaki
>>> meg=E9rts=
e a
>>> reg=E9ny bels=F5 logik=E1j=E1t =E9s felfedezze az elrejtett
>>> =F6sszef=
=FCgg=E9seket, nem
>>> el=E9g egyszer elolvasni. A pynchoni tr=FCkk ugyanis az benne,
>>> hogy az
>>> elej=E9n =E9s a k=F6zep=E9n olyan dolgok vannak, amik nem
>>> =E9rtelmezhe=
t=F5k a v=E9ge
>>> n=E9lk=FCl, magyar=E1zta el a ford=EDt=F3 a kifejezetten Thomas
>>> Pyncho=
n-ra
>>> jellemz=F5 eszk=F6zt.
>>>
>>> Kedves Olvas=F3! Jelentkezzen be =E9s akkor egy kattint=E1ssal
>>> nyithat=
a
>>> cikkhez f=F3rumos t=E9m=E1t.
>>>
>>> http://www.webradio.hu/index.php?option=3Dcontent&task=3Dview&id=3D148=
300
>>>
>
>
>
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Laura,<br><br>thanks (again). I'm really indebted to P-listers. In
fact=
I keep wondering how anyone could translate GR with a clear conscience
bef=
ore the advent of the Internet or, more precisely, Web 2.0.<br><br>I
mean t=
echnically it's just impossible to stand firmly on both sides of
the po=
nd at the same time, being immersed both in Amerciana and getting the
right=
Hungarian (etc.) terms. Even the guides won't help you in many
cases. =
For example, without YouTube, where it took about 30 secs, it
would've =
taken me months to fetch the actual <i>tune </i>of the Fred Astaire
song fr=
om that obscure 1930s movie on page 561. On the other hand, it would
have c=
ost me days or weeks of library work and finding the right expert just
to t=
ranslate a single sentence on crystal radio properly, while now
it to=
ok me 5 minutes to contact a Hungarian blogger who specializes in that
subj=
ect. Or within half an hour I could locate an amiable veteran chief
sergean=
t, who served in a Scud unit in western Hungary, and ask him how this
and t=
hat part or action is said in real life (Scuds are ultimately V-2-
derived).=
It certainly sounds immodest and I haven't read through the large-
lang=
uage translations (only the German one for occasional reference)
but =
now that I think it over, to get this level of fidelity, say, 30 years
ago,=
would have taken either a decade's research (weeks or months for
hours=
) or a full (paid) team.<br>
<br>J=E1nos<br><br><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2009. febru=E1r
11. 2=
2:08 =EDrta, <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:kelber at mindspring.com=
">kelber at mindspring.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote
class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt
0pt 0=
.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
After the daunting task of translating GR, this should be a snap to
transla=
te:<br>
<br>
CONGRATULATIONS!!<br>
<br>
Laura<br>
<div class=3D"Ih2E3d"><br>
- -----Original Message-----<br>
>From: J=E1nos Sz=E9kely <<a
href=3D"mailto:miksaapja at gmail.com">miks=
aapja at gmail.com</a>><br>
</div><div class=3D"Ih2E3d">>Sent: Feb 11, 2009 7:17 AM<br>
>To: Dave Monroe <<a
href=3D"mailto:against.the.dave at gmail.com">again=
st.the.dave at gmail.com</a>><br>
>Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:pynchon-l at waste.org">pynchon-l at waste.org</
a><br>
</div><div class=3D"Ih2E3d">>Subject: Re: Pynchon:
S=FAlysziv=E1rv=E1ny<=
br>
><br>
>It's about my GR translation. The lady from F=FCggetlen
H=EDr=FCgyn=
=F6ks=E9g<br>
>(Independent News Agency) has read the original (a rarity among
Hungari=
an<br>
>journalists). The text is compressed from a much longer interview,
inte=
nded<br>
>for absolute beginners.<br>
><br>
</div><div><div></div><div class=3D"Wj3C7c">>J=E1nos<br>
><br>
><br>
>2009. febru=E1r 11. 12:30 Dave Monroe =EDrta, <<a href=3D"mailto:aga=
inst.the.dave at gmail.com">against.the.dave at gmail.com</a>>:<br>
><br>
>> M=FBv=E9szet, kult=FAra, sz=F3rakoz=E1s<br>
>><br>
>> Pynchon: S=FAlysziv=E1rv=E1ny<br>
>> F=FCggetlen H=EDr=FCgyn=F6ks=E9g 2009 febru=E1r 10,
kedd<br=
>
>><br>
>> Harminc=F6t =E9vvel az amerikai publik=E1l=E1s ut=E1n, a
Magvet=F5=
Kiad=F3<br>
>> gondoz=E1s=E1ban magyarul is megjelent Thomas Pynchon
S=FAlysziv=
=E1rv=E1ny c=EDm=FB<br>
>> reg=E9nye.<br>
>><br>
>> Az amerikai posztmodern irodalom egyik alapm=FBv=E9nek
tartott reg=
=E9ny<br>
>> f=F5h=F5se egy m=E1sodik vil=E1gh=E1bor=FAs messi=E1s, akinek
tal=
=E1nyos mereved=E9se<br>
>> megj=F3solja a n=E1ci rak=E9taisten elj=F6vetel=E9t. A
S=FAlysziv=
=E1rv=E1ny olyan,<br>
>> mintha egy mozifilmet n=E9zne az olvas=F3, ugyanakkor egy
m=E9rn=
=F6ki<br>
>> precizit=E1ssal megszerkesztett eredeti kompoz=EDci=F3 -
nyilatkoz=
ta Sz=E9ky<br>
>> J=E1nos, a k=F6tet ford=EDt=F3ja.<br>
>><br>
>> Thomas Pynchon a kort=E1rs irodalom egyik legismertebb
rejt=F5zk=
=F6d=F5je. B=E1r<br>
>> a 72 =E9ves amerikai =EDr=F3 =E9letm=FBve, egyetemi tananyag,
szer=
z=F5k=E9nt ker=FCli<br>
>> a nyilv=E1noss=E1got, nem jelenik meg d=EDj=E1tad=F3kon, =E9s
tize=
n=E9ves kora =F3ta<br>
>> nincs r=F3la publikus f=E9nyk=E9p. A Gravity's Rainbow
(1973) =
- - magyarul<br>
>> nemr=E9giben S=FAlysziv=E1rv=E1ny c=EDmmel megjelent
reg=E9nye, 19=
74-ben elnyerte<br>
>> Amerika legrangosabb k=F6nyves d=EDj=E1t - a Nemzeti
K=F6nyvd=EDja=
t. Pynchon<br>
>> neve pedig az=F3ta =FAjra =E9s =FAjra felt=FBnik a Nobel-
v=E1rom=
=E1nyosok list=E1j=E1n.<br>
>><br>
>> Thomas Pynchon - akit Salman Rushdie egy kritik=E1j=E1ban
"l=
=E1thatatlan<br>
>> =F6regembernek" nevezett, =E9s akiben "nem m=FAl=F3
vonz=
alom =E9l a megt=E9veszt=E9s<br>
>> ir=E1nt" - n=E9pszer=FB internetes t=E9ma. Sz=E1mos
rajong=F3=
i tal=E1lgat=E1s<br>
>> sz=FCletett m=E1r arr=F3l, hogy val=F3j=E1ban l=E9tezik-e,
avagy a=
z =E1ln=E9v alatt<br>
>> m=E1s, esetleg t=F6bb =EDr=F3 publik=E1lja m=FBveit.
Titokzatos fi=
gur=E1ja m=E9g a<br>
>> Simpson csal=E1d c=EDm=FB, anim=E1ci=F3s sorozatban is
felt=FBnt.<=
br>
>><br>
>> Sz=E9ky J=E1nos arra nem v=E1llalkozott, hogy megv=E1laszolja
ezt =
a tal=E1nyt,<br>
>> de a k=FCl=F6nc amerikai =EDr=F3 m=FBveivel r=E9gi
ismerets=E9gben=
van, =F5 ford=EDtotta<br>
>> le ugyanis a magyarul el=F5sz=F6r 1990-ben megjelent A 49-es
t=E9t=
el<br>
>> ki=E1lt=E1sa (The Crying of lot 49, 1966) c=EDm=FB Pynchon-
reg=E9n=
yt is.<br>
>><br>
>> A nemr=E9giben napvil=E1got l=E1tott S=FAlysziv=E1rv=E1nyt
h=E1rom=
=E9vig ford=EDtotta<br>
>> Sz=E9ky J=E1nos. Egy semmilyen kor=E1bbi irodalmi m=FBh=F6z
nem ha=
sonl=EDthat=F3<br>
>> eredeti kompoz=EDci=F3t tarthat a kez=E9ben az olvas=F3 -
hangs=FA=
lyozta a<br>
>> ford=EDt=F3. Egyfel=F5l rengeteg improviz=E1ci=F3 van ebben a
reg=
=E9nyben,<br>
>> m=E1sr=E9szt pedig egy nagyon bonyolult, m=E9rn=F6ki
precizit=E1ss=
al<br>
>> megszerkesztett "=E9p=EDtm=E9ny". A ford=EDt=F3
szerint =
a filmes logik=E1val<br>
>> meg=EDrt reg=E9nyben olyan v=E1lt=E1sok vannak, mintha egy
mozifil=
met<br>
>> "olvasna" a "n=E9z=F5".<br>
>><br>
>> A mulats=E1gos, izgalmas, =E9rdekfesz=EDt=F5
"mazsol=E1kkal&q=
uot; telesz=F3rt k=F6nyv<br>
>> tr=FCkk=F6sen =FAgy van meg=EDrva, hogy aki elkezdi, ne tudja
abba=
hagyni,<br>
>> tette hozz=E1 Sz=E9ky J=E1nos. Ugyanakkor ahhoz, hogy valaki
meg=
=E9rtse a<br>
>> reg=E9ny bels=F5 logik=E1j=E1t =E9s felfedezze az elrejtett
=F6ssz=
ef=FCgg=E9seket, nem<br>
>> el=E9g egyszer elolvasni. A pynchoni tr=FCkk ugyanis az
benne, hog=
y az<br>
>> elej=E9n =E9s a k=F6zep=E9n olyan dolgok vannak, amik nem
=E9rtelm=
ezhet=F5k a v=E9ge<br>
>> n=E9lk=FCl, magyar=E1zta el a ford=EDt=F3 a kifejezetten
Thomas Py=
nchon-ra<br>
>> jellemz=F5 eszk=F6zt.<br>
>><br>
>> Kedves Olvas=F3! Jelentkezzen be =E9s akkor egy
kattint=E1ssal nyi=
that a<br>
>> cikkhez f=F3rumos t=E9m=E1t.<br>
>><br>
>> <a href=3D"http://www.webradio.hu/index.php?option=3Dcontent&t=
ask=3Dview&id=3D148300" target=3D"_blank">http://www.webradio.hu/index.=
php?option=3Dcontent&task=3Dview&id=3D148300</a><br>
>><br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>
- --000e0cd48564cdb1eb0462be27e5--
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