aw. RE: aw. RE: aw. RE: aw. RE: Why did Elser plant the bomb?

[kelber at mindspring.com]

In the US, anyway, the opposite of fascism is probably libertarianism -- pro-capitalism, anti-government.
Anything approaching socialism (big-government, anti-capitalist) is marginalized at best.  
I'd consider myself a socialist, if it weren't for the fact that socialism doesn't necessarily
go hand in hand with(maybe even demands opposition to) human rights, environmentalism, a free press, etc.

At the same time, we're entering into an environmental and resource-distribution crisis, globally speaking, 
that only big, controlling governments can save us from.  Individual rights will have to be curtailed if we're going
to survive as a planet.  The ideal government of the future will have to restrict what people can buy, how they use land,
how many kids they can have, etc.  And a lot of things we consider human rights will get trampled in the process 
(as if that hasn't always been the case).  It's not a pretty picture, but what's the alternative?  

Laura

-----Original Message-----
>From: Kai Frederik Lorentzen <lorentzen at hotmail.de>
>Sent: Feb 16, 2009 1:11 PM
>To: kelber at mindspring.com, pynchon-l at waste.org
>Subject: RE: aw. RE: aw. RE: aw. RE: aw. RE: Why did Elser plant the bomb?
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>> Is capitalism fascist? A genuine question. I'm not sure of the answer.
>
>Max Horkheimer: "Who does not want to talk about capitalism shall keep quiet on fascism".
>(Wer aber vom Kapitalismus nicht reden mag, der soll auch vom Faschismus schweigen)
>Though this was written in the 1930s, more recent tendencies in Western societies
>(especially since 9/11) give, imo, the sentence a certain actuality. Some political
>scientists speak of "post-democracy", others of "neo-totalitarism". What do YOU think?
>
>> But the bio-tech bloc, orgasmic over the staggering amounts of money to be made via stem-cell research, is equally happy with
>> Obama. I'm right there with them: I want them to find technologies to help paralyzed people walk, even if they get stinking
>> rich in the process.
>
>Nah, it's not about "Eat the rich" or such (got rubys & money myself). Your argument as such
>cannot be beaten. But what's the other side of the coin? What's the price? Already by now folks
>work on the identification of gens for alcoholism, schizophrenia and even so called a-social
>behavior. Though, as a sociologist, I don't think that these things (and others) are caused
>primarily genetical, I have no doubt, that bio-scientist and politicians will test the shit
>out of the now given possibilities of so called 'gen-therapy' to influence people into a
>by-any-means-conformistic way of living. Handicapped people already get rarer and rarer.
>This is the Darwin year, and everybody is talking about the "survival of the fittest".
>They key-word is "selection". Selection on a social scale. 
>
>
>>
>> Just as the Nazis pushed (Aryan) motherhood, the bio-techies are pushing the commodification of babies. They don't care if the>babies end up in the hands of gay or straight couples or affluent single people, it's the sale price that matters. In that>sense, they can appear socially progressive. A gay couple drinking (expensive) Free Trade coffee while pushing their acquired 
>>(via fertility docs, payments to lawyers, poor people, etc.)baby in an (expensive) stroller brings sanctimonious tears of joy to>these folks. Again, I'm right there with them. I think it's real progress that gay couples can start families. One thing you 
>> won't see in the movies is a likeable protagonist having an abortion. Forget that abortion is legal. There've been a bunch of 
>> movies (Knocked Up, Juno) that add a veneer of hipness to the Right-to-Lifer's message. The bio-techies are great at making 
>> their retro message appear progresive.
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> 
>Yes, I also think it's real progress that gay people can start families! But
>therefore you 'just' need a willing Leihmutter, not bio-technology. Btw, over here,
>where we have gay and lesbian marriages, also movies with likeable protagonists
>having an abortion are not uncommon. While we're talking about abortions and technology:
>Ever heard about the fact that in India, for-socio-economic reasons, much more girls 
>than boys fall victim to abortion? Since ultrasonics enable the parents early to know
>about the coming child's sex, this tendency increased dramatically in recent years... 
> 
>I don't think that babies should be commodified.
> 
> 
>Kai  
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>>
>> Laura
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: Kai Frederik Lorentzen
>>>Sent: Feb 16, 2009 7:40 AM
>>>To: kelber at mindspring.com, pynchon-l at waste.org
>>>Subject: RE: aw. RE: aw. RE: aw. RE: aw. RE: Why did Elser plant the bomb?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Well, at least the diet-manuals of the Nazis were full of sentences like
>>>"Dein Körper gehört nicht dir, dein Körper gehört dem deutschen Volk!"
>>>(Your body does not belong to you, your body belongs to the German people).
>>>Add the latest possibilities of wonderful bio-technology and you see where
>>>all this is going ... Where are my smokes? Kai
>>>
>>>----------------------------------------
>>>> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:05:40 -0500
>>>> From: kelber at mindspring.com
>>>> To: pynchon-l at waste.org
>>>> Subject: RE: aw. RE: aw. RE: aw. RE: aw. RE: Why did Elser plant the bomb?
>>>>
>>>> Is "physical fitness a mission of the state" fascist? How about this take: In opposition to ferocious lobbies by capitalist agribusiness conglomerates
>>>> and fast food empires that push their high-fat,artery-clogging wares, leading to an obesity epidemic; beleaguered public health officials desperately try to get some health-related laws on the book: banning restaurants from using trans-fatty acids, maybe getting a little funding for physical ed, all based on the idea that the government ought to take an active role in public health. Fascism?
>>>>
>>>> Laura
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>-----------------
>>>>>From: Kai Frederik Lorentzen lorentzen at hotmail.de
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>3) To consider "pysical fittness a mission of the state" is indeed fascist.
>>>>>
>>
>>