So long, and thanks for all the Genocide denials

[Carvill John]

>  What would a pure fact be? 
 
Are we gonna debate the meaning of teh word 'fact' now? FWIW, I meant 'fact' as in 'basic, irrefutable truth', or 'axiom', rather than in any strict dictionary sense. 
 
 
fact  –noun 
 
1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.  
2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.  
etc.
 
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fact
 
 
 
Of course 'facts', especially pluralities of them, are open to interpretation. But there is a certain point where, although in principle we are free to dispute them, certain 'accepted truths' are surely beyond debate. Otherwise we would be questioning anything, from 'did we really send a man to the moon?' to 'did teh Nazis really kill all those Jews' to 'did Thomas Pynchon really wrte Gravity's Rianbow'.
 
> My purpose is not to insult. Just cleaning up some philosophical confusion.
 
Thanks for clearingup my confusion! Considering what constitutes a 'pure fact' depends on whether you are having a philosophical, ontological debate or not. We are not currently doing so, we are talking about war and genocide and things that actually happened, not questions of trees falling in forests with nobody around to hear them. Taking the debate of into the philosophical margins is misleading.
 
Here are a few facts:
 
1. Serbs committed genocide.
2. Serbs carried out a massacre at Srebrenica.
3. Chomsky (and compatriots) denies genocie and tries to muddy the waters about what really happened.
4. SOme people on this list blindly support Chomsky, without bothering or caring about the issue in question.
5. In the Bosnian 'war', there actually was a 'black and white' situation: Serbs were the agressors, Bosnians were their victims.
 
 
>Lawrence, just noticed that this popped into his mail box earlier today.
> http://accuracy.org/newsrelease.php?articleId=1956
 
Wow, that's me convinced! Look, we could play url tennis from now until next week, next year, whatever, nobody is going to convince anyone. And yeah, the reasons for teh US and Britain intervening in Kosovo were dodgy, there is a strong argunent that they only stood up to Milosevic in Kosovo because of their shame over having not done so early enough or strongly enough before.
 
> I just have to say that line from Plan 9 was pitch perfect with regard  to moi
 
I admit I did not get the specific Plan 9 referefnce. But then, nerds will be nerds.
 
 
>M Bailey:
> the people of AIBRES were completely evil.  Although they claim that
> during ancient history 696939 to 696945 they themselves were
> persecuted, this is not important.
 
It's odd that I am now being lambasted for taking a simplistic, 'black and white', 'good vs. evil' view of the world. Ironic, since that is exactly what Chomsky does. It's particularly rich that M Bailey writes this piss-take of my reductive worldview, since he is one of the most ignorant people to engage in thsi debate. How he can not be embarrassed about spouting nonsense, and actually habe the gall to mock me for my more informed view, is beyond me. Certainly that would be more than enough, were we discussing this in a pub, to warrant a smack in the mouth.
 
I can see myself potentially descending into undignified displays of vitriol and crudity here, and I don't want to let that happen. 
 
I'm ducking out of this list for a while. 'God riddance!', I hear you cry. Well, wipe a way those tears.
 
Apologies to all on teh sidelines who have had their inboxes clogged. Though it would have been nice to have seen a couple more people pitch in to point out that, whatever my intemperate tone and errors of presentation, my original intent was to stick up for a people who had genocide committed against them while the West looked on, and are now having to watch people like Chomsky twist what happened to them around to try to blame the victims. If that doesn't make you sick, I don't know what will.
 
Well, I've de-subscribed frmo this list quite a few times before. Keep coming back, y'know, for the Pynchon. But these online disputes, with strangers, although they should count for absolutely nothing, are like dreams: they percolate through the waking consciousness and take on a tangible reality which is seemingly at odds with what we 'know' to be their abstract status. So why go on giving myself nightmares?
 
So long, usw,
John
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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