Vond /charm

[kelber at mindspring.com]

The nature of fatherhood as changed significantly from the '50s through the 70s and on into the present day.  Vond, perhaps is the '50s (or earlier) archetype:  a distant authority figure who commands (or at least demands) respect, not always for any apparent reason.  Webb Traverse fits this model as well.  So does my father (and, I suspect, many of our fathers).  Zoyd is at the cusp of the NEW fatherhood - familiar (keep those legs shut!) a friend more than an authority figure. The NEW DAD (thinking of my husband here) hangs out with the kids, jokes with them, plays guitar riffs, etc.  The OLD DAD sat in the next room and asked the kids to pour him a scotch and soda, barking at them if they made too much noise.

Laura

-----Original Message-----
>From: Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>

>
>I think wires got crossed here and probably me that did it.   Either  
>that or we are disagreeing  but I'm confused about what. When I spoke  
>about Prairies intense curiosity I too  was talking about Vond,  and  
>later about my own adopted daughter's curiousity about her biological  
>father.  I like Zoyd  a lot and  tend to agree with what you are  
>saying about him,and thought I was saying similar things about their  
>(Zoyd/Prairie)relationship. At any rate, I think yours is a good  
>characterization.  I don't see it as a 50's TV show relationship  
>having never heard the Father in Father knows Best "say Keep em legs  
>closed".  All I'm saying is the bond is deep and real and will  
>probably stand any test.
>
>Perhaps my understanding of  your " and yet Prairie..." thought,  
>which I took to say that she seemed like she might  want to connect  
>to Brock, is mistaken.
>
>So I just want to be sure we know wherein we differ and then we can  
>proceed to cuss and fight , or at least point out brilliantly apropos  
>textual references.
>
>
>On Mar 25, 2009, at 2:36 PM, Henry Musikar wrote:
>
>> Beg to differ.  It's not a fifties TV show relationship between  
>> Prairie and
>> Zoyd, it's a Seventies sit-com, and as such, close and not without
>> sweetness.  Their lightly disparaging remarks, before Hector  
>> reappears at
>> the Bodhi, particularly are based on knowing and loving each  
>> other.  Her
>> Preparation H retort to Brock, though amusing, would never have  
>> been used
>> against Zoyd.  Prairie's "intense curiosity" is about Brock, the  
>> man that
>> her mother was unable to resist, not the gentle father, biological  
>> or not,
>> who except for a brief period, raised her.  When baby Prairie calls  
>> Zoyd a
>> hippy bum, we recognize that though she is to some extent correct,  
>> she has
>> been manipulated by an agent of the left, her mother's mother, and  
>> we feel
>> bad, but we know that she grows out of it.
>>
>> Prairie's motives are simple, i.e. pure, as are those of her  
>> friends, and
>> they are inescapably agreeable in comparison to those of most of OBA's
>> characters.  Zoyd, though ever so slightly turned, has done very  
>> little, if
>> any, wrong.
>>
>> Henry Mu
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joseph Tracy
>>
>> I think your point is totally valid Bekah and fits right in with
>> Henry's list. For me thinking about the motives here shows the
>> complexity of of the topic. My post here was actually a response to
>> Henry's "And yet Prairie..."
>> My thinking is that we do see her having second thoughts, but who
>> wouldn't considering the chance that this is her father.  IMO they
>> never would have bonded or even connected. I actually have personal
>> experience along these lines with a step daughter who who later
>> asked  me to adopt her and who at one point tried to connect to her
>> biological Father. She still has a wonderful relationship with her
>> father's mother but zip with the father. In my experience kids who
>> have a parent who flaked out are very wary about what is real, even
>> with the intense curiosity factor.
>>
>> On Mar 25, 2009, at 10:00 AM, Bekah wrote:
>>
>>> Fwiw,  I didn't mean that Vond necessarily accepted Prairie as his
>>> own child.  I only meant he wanted to see that his ideas were
>>> continued on into the next generation - whomever their genetic
>>> fathers happened to be.
>>>
>>> Bekah
>>>
>>> On Mar 25, 2009, at 6:04 AM, Joseph Tracy wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think the preparation H remark, staying on her feet a little
>>>> better than Luke Skywalker, gives some indication that she is not
>>>> entirely charmed. Beside she could be Weed Atman's child. But she
>>>> is for damn sure a child of Zoyd and of Vineland and the People's
>>>> Republic of Rock and Roll. Zoyd fed her , Zoyd wiped her butt.
>>>> Zoyd kept out of harm's way and would do anything but rat for her.
>>>> He may be a hippie slob, but he's not a rat or an aspiring
>>>> concentration camp commander, or an awol parent.
>>>>
>>>> Good list Henry. I always like multiple choice where the best
>>>> answer is all of the above.
>>>> On Mar 25, 2009, at 7:11 AM, Bekah wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I thought Brock's intentions were more like keeping the flame of
>>>>> fascism alive even unto the next generation.  I saw it as kinda,
>>>>> sorta allegorical although there is a personal revenge kind of
>>>>> connection.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bekah
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 24, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Henry Musikar wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What is Brock's intention towards Prairie?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A. Patriarchal control?
>>>>>> B. Reconnection with Frenesi by blackmail, actual or emotional?
>>>>>> C. Sexual?
>>>>>> D. Fatherly protection?
>>>>>> E. All of the above?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Henry Mu
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>