Determinism & Apocolypse: the Grim Irony of Our Fortunate Fall

[Joseph Tracy]

I can  see Pynchon's gnosticism or how that tradition could be  
applied to him( it's not a tight fit as for P Dick or Elrond  
Hubbard), but I don't see much correlation of gnosticism to  
Calvinism. Calvinism is identity based and Gnosticism is knowledge  
based. Calvinism is aggressively proselytizing, Gnosticism more like  
a secret club of those who know. Clavinism sees history and  
authorities as ordained by God, Gnosticim sees history and  
authorities as under the control of the demiGod. What you are left  
with is the spirit/flesh division. The philosophy there is similar,  
but plays out differently with Calvinists seeking to repress and  
control the flesh through judgemental institutions and harsh law and  
gnostics making it a matter of personal discipline and spiritual  
advancement.

On Oct 2, 2009, at 9:13 AM, David Morris wrote:

> Ignorant questions are pardonable as long as they're sincere.
>
>> From my slim knowledge of Gnosticism, its essence isn't a vague
> something called "mysticism."  I assume by your usage of the word
> "mysticism" you mean a direct personal supernatural experience, and,
> yes, many religions/cults promise that experience.  But the essence of
> Gnosticism and its relation to Calvinism is in both of their
> theologies, and specifically their understanding of the spiritual
> origins of the cosmos in relation to its present state, and how to
> escape it.  But you should get a better overview of both Gnosticism
> and Calvinism before you read Eddins.  Then you might not even need to
> read Eddins to see Pynchon's gnosticism.
>
> David Morris
>
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 7:48 AM, Michael Bailey
> <michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com> wrote:
>> alice wellintown  wrote:
>>>
>>>> From 'The Gnostic Pynchon' Dwight Eddins, (1990)
>>>
>>> Pynchon specifically identifies Calvinism, and in particular the  
>>> Puritanism of Slothrop's New England forebears, as the precursor  
>>> of this modern religion of death--an identification echoed by  
>>> Voegelin's analysis of Puritanism as a form of gnosticism.
>>
>> apologies if this is an ignorant question, but I have various good  
>> excuses for not reading TGP... my curiosity is, Gnosticism as  
>> opposed to, or compared to, what?
>>
>> Gnosticism to me is Dead-Sea-Scrolls-there-can-be-some-direct- 
>> knowledge-of- God-achieved-by-discipline-(possibly-esoteric)
>>
>> If the Calvinists and Hobbesists embodied a mystical tradition in  
>> a polis in a way that is a cognate of the Essenes,
>>
>> what other tradition or directive or impulse was there that they  
>> ignored to do this?
>>
>> is there not a substantial mystical basis behind orthodox Papism  
>> and Judaism, and maybe even British "common law", to such an  
>> extent that these schools could also fulfill the definition of  
>> gnostical teachings?