Ig Nobels

[kelber at mindspring.com]

Idealism and realpolitik might have been better served by awarding it symbolically to those Iranians (not their purported leader) who, knowing they could be beaten or shot, peacefully marched on the streets of Teheran in an anti-government protest.  They showed the world what courage looks like and how peaceful change is made.

Laura

-----Original Message-----
>From: Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
>Sent: Oct 11, 2009 8:03 AM
>To: pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org>, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
>Subject: Re: Ig Nobels
>
>To quote the head of the Nobel Peace Prize Committee: It is a combination of idealism and realpolitik that changes the world....
>
>--- On Sun, 10/11/09, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>
>> From: Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
>> Subject: Re: Ig Nobels
>> To: "pynchon -l" <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>> Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 1:01 AM
>> I appreciate the reasoned argument
>> here.  I am not looking for a savior and my vote cast
>> for Obama was not a product of naivete though every vote
>> expresses some degree of wishful thinking . But something
>> important happened in the financial meltdown that created an
>> opening for dynamic leadership and change. The opportunity
>> was squandered, a great lie was perpetrated and Obama became
>> a participant in the  biggest financial fraud in
>> history. This was followed by escalating a failed military
>> policy in Afghanistan, continuing to hire mercenaries,
>> to  practice torture and to fail to prosecute war
>> crimes, backing off his stand on Israeli settlements,
>> refusing to honor the UN investigation into war crimes in
>> Gaza, and recently undermining climate change
>> protocols.  Somewhere along the line  I came to
>> realize that putting a friendly smart  Democratic
>> party, multicultural face on the US colonial
>> enterprise  and the corporate state was  as
>> meaningless as I had begun to suspect.
>> 
>> I also agree that change is a local enterprise  and I
>> find myself working for that change with others in my
>> Vermont town. But I refuse to give praise where none is due.
>> Justifying failed leadership does not change its miserable
>> ineffectiveness. The problem is not that Obama tries and
>> fails to make the serious changes which are needed in the
>> US. The problem is that he has not tried in a single area to
>> contend for the best possible outcome.  Obama's support
>> is dwindling not for the lack of awards but for the lack of
>> courage, he does not support the best interests of voters
>> and they are losing interest in supporting him.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> > On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 8:33 PM, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> if no one is gonna rock the boat, what's the
>> point? Yes, I understand
>> >> the vampire like suck the entrenched interests
>> have in the US but if
>> >> the prez can't do it, who is?
>> >> 
>> >> we want more--that so hard to understand?
>> >> 
>> > You are quite right, if, perhaps a bit overzealous,
>> given that you are
>> > actually preaching to the choir. Yes, we want more,
>> but are we willing
>> > to make that more happen? National change does not
>> happen from the top
>> > down, as zealous Alice likewise overstates, change of
>> the sort you are
>> > on about is a national thing that requires more than a
>> vote, more than
>> > a man with a few allies.
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 8:33 PM, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> if no one is gonna rock the boat, what's the
>> point? Yes, I understand
>> >> the vampire like suck the entrenched interests
>> have in the US but if
>> >> the prez can't do it, who is?
>> >> 
>> >> we want more--that so hard to understand?
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 7:55 PM, alice wellintown
>> >> <alicewellintown at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>> But surely you understand that Presidents of
>> the US don't have the
>> >>> power needed to make the kinds of changes we
>> would love to see, right?
>> >>> Having a set of brazen Brunswicks doesn't mean
>> the Prez can knock the
>> >>> pins down. He doesn't get to roll in most
>> frames. And, some of the
>> >>> pins are glued to the lane. It ain't as easy
>> as it looks on TV. The
>> >>> Nobel folks might just hekp the guy get
>> re-elected. Right now it looks
>> >>> like he's lost a lot of support from the Peace
>> vote, the gay voter,
>> >>> the anti-wall street vote, and other left,
>> liberal, democractic,
>> >>> Reagan Democratic working class folk. The
>> Nobel may help him win some
>> >>> of that vote back. He needs more support not
>> less. Otherwise, it's
>> >>> back to Bush & Co. full tilt boogey.
>> >>> 
>> >> 
>> 
>> 
>
>
>      
>