[rich]

think of it this way--what would a Pynchon novel look like w/o his
goofy humor--it would just as unbalanced as IV is which is pretty much
all stupid jokes and dripping with cultural parody
it may be a fine parody of a place and time but I expected more from
Pynchon, that's all

but i've droned on and on about IV and will stop now. it serves no
purpose to repeat oneself
i didn't like it and I'll leave it at that

rich

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Accepting very differing judgments of IV's quality, I still say: he is showing us how we LIVE in this pop, fetish, world, NOT parodying a parodic culture.    He shows us this parodic culture as the world of Vineland and IV, say.....
>
> Does a more traditional satirist/parodist----pick one---simply show (up) the world he satirizes?  Pynchon's deeper vision (than many) shows how we are already parodies of the human----and live in that parodic culture like fish in aquarium tanks.
>
> --- On Thu, 10/22/09, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re:
>> To: kelber at mindspring.com
>> Cc: pynchon-l at waste.org
>> Date: Thursday, October 22, 2009, 11:25 AM
>> but i think u noted this already
>> Laura, and it bears repeating that
>> parodying something that is already the object of so much
>> parody or is
>> a parody itself (TV, movies) is really is annoying,
>> unoriginal and
>> pointless and really sinks IV
>>
>> Pynchon seems to have a problem with being super smart
>> which is OK and
>> he usually is good at balancing the dumb and the smart but
>> if Vineland
>> was a half-hearted attempt compared to the monster works,
>> IV is dead
>> on arrival--its mostly chaff or better yet the sticks and
>> seeds
>>
>> rich
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 9:10 AM,  <kelber at mindspring.com>
>> wrote:
>> > The movie reviewer-style referencing of movies and,
>> perhaps, the used car-sellers referencing of cars, add a
>> layer of pop-culture cheesiness (Velveetification?)to the
>> story.  We're not getting the simple view of the omniscient
>> narrator, we're getting the view filtered through a lens
>> clouded by crappy pop culture.  The TV parodies are part of
>> this.  Pynchon is using a filter of crappy culture, like
>> fog moving in, to show us why the budding idealism of the
>> 60s went under.
>> >
>> > Laura
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> >>From: Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>Clement Levy writes:
>> >>Cars are quite an issue in IV, maybe, because
>> they're an issue in LA area. We may have another word about
>> it.
>> >>
>> >>I DO have another word about it. P and the cars in
>> IV are noticed more (and described differently) than most
>> realist writers, other detective novel writers do. First,
>> noticed all over the place in the prose. So many did not ALL
>> have to be seen, right?
>> >>
>> >>But most, they are described by make, model and
>> year.....Now who else getting down cars in LA describes them
>> this way just about every time?
>> >>Most writers might say 'yellow chevy';
>> such-and-such Camaro.........
>> >>There is some kind of 'lovingness' [my word. find a
>> better.] goin' on in the descriptions, yes?
>> >>
>> >>It reminds me of the way he, uniquely it seems,
>> indicates so many movies with the date. For some reason he
>> wants us to 'get' the whole NAME, Year of a car.  That that
>> 'defines' it or something?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
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