Manson Cult; was Golden Fang

[grladams at teleport.com]

I think Pynchon likes to create a place where we watch as innocence is
taken, maybe by a cosmic intrusion. So that perhaps (to Robin)
thermodynamics-wise, this might follow some law or, more intriguingly,
break a law. Innocence in these novels doesn't just seep away from the
innocent. In ATD, Innocence "harvested" by phantoms in the wings of the
theatre of the seen world, where complex stories about expeditions & other
intrusions by bad guy characters, seem to be remarkably coincidental to the
change in math, and impending doom looming in Europe in only a few years.
and even in M&D, actions to gain speed toward the west and faster ways for
dividing nature into parcels. whether it's real estate development or
speculation or collected stamps, these are all signs of a big Take. In GR I
could argue that it's the prison labor more than the Holocaust as a canvas
for diplsying this. To David Morris's original obs I would add: I talked to
this guy who was a service boy to a motorcycle gang in the LA area at the
time of IV, & he said the Manson trials really dominated -- long-hairs
really did go from being treated like uh look at the cute weirdos to where
people seriously avoided eye contact & sentiment turned against them. It's
the hand that moves the cosmic shift that has me so intrigued. This damn
hand gives power to the real bad guys. This is the source of paranoia. The
Regan/Amrika era will greatly enjoy the steam ahead push and thrill in the
visuals of the end of cuteness in hippi-ism. makes you wanna reach for a
paramorphoscope and turn back the hands of time to see where we went wrong.


Jill

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Joseph Tracy brook7 at sover.net
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 19:27:54 -0400
To: pynchon-l at waste.org
Subject: Re: Manson Cult; was Golden Fang


Just to say I had a similar reaction of thinking how IV is set after  
Woodstock and after the Manson Murders but before the trial, or  
Altamont, and that what looms is not just the Manson trial but a kind  
of trial of a larger cultural movement to be brought to fruition by  
Ronald Reagan, the wet dream of the far right, the charm of fascism  
on steroids. . To lose the hippie thing even at its sweetest is no  
great thing , a natural loss of innocence, and a shaking off of the  
inflated self  importance of youth and of shallow  identities, but  
there is more at stake here. The real estate war and the culture war  
and the drug war  and the war in Vietnam and a political apparatus  
that thrives on war are the deeper levels. Who will put who on trial?  
NIxon goes down like Manson in his, but Reagan soon revives the war,  
tooled up and fully weaponized in the nation's dreamfactory.   
Woodstock Nation, the Popular Front, The Mountaintop Dream of of  
MLK,  No time for mourning in America, it's  almost time for morning  
in Amerika.

I'm reading about the McCarthy years as lived by IF Stone. The  
mutilation of the left and of dissent which led to the bipartisanship  
of the post-WW2 colonial wars.


On Sep 27, 2009, at 2:36 PM, kelber at mindspring.com wrote:

> What Pynchon omits is often as important as what he includes.  The  
> starkest omission from IV (he does, after all, mention Vietnam a  
> number of times, even if he doesn't focus on it) is Woodstock (and  
> its flipside, Altamont).  There are lots of references in IV to the  
> "good hippie" archetype (someone posted a list recently, if I'm not  
> misremembering).  Like the Holocaust and Hiroshima in GR, like  
> JFK's assassination in COL49, Pynchon doesn't overtly mention that  
> which he mourns.  Woodstock was the epitome of the sweet hippie  
> ethos, Altamont was the anti-Woodstock.  They haunt IV, but only  
> Manson comes to the foreground.  As Bekah says, that's all anyone  
> was talking about.  Manson was just news at the time, scary news at  
> that.  It took some distance to see him or Altamont as "the death  
> of" the sweet hippie thing.
>
> Laura
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bekah <bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net>
>
>>
>> First,  I think the Manson murders are frequently referenced in IV is
>> because media coverage and gossip/talk were so much a part of
>> setting,  LA and nation,  at the time.
>>
>> The LA Times,  and other papers as well as the network news sources
>> were full of the murders,  investigation and trials on a daily basis
>> from August 1969 to April, 1971  and beyond,  even unto today.
>> Actually, IV takes place directly in middle of that period,   Manson
>> and company were in jail and awaiting trial (pre-trial stuff?) .    I
>> think if TPR did any research to refresh his memory he came up with
>> Manson, Manson,  Manson in all the papers and old TV news footage.
>> And I think just realistically,  that's what the cops, detectives,
>> street people etc.  would talk about.   Actually, there was talk that
>> Manson didn't get fair trial in LA because of the publicity,  but the
>> fact is that the media coverage was nation-wide.
>>
>> Re GR,  I don't think that the events of the Holocaust were so well
>> known during the time and place of GR (by Slothrop and company) -  
>> they
>> became very, very well known later.
>>
>> Manson was about 35 years old when the murders occurred.   How old is
>> Doc?  About 30?  (Don't trust anyone over 30.)
>>
>> Second,   and I'm not so sure about this part,   I think there's  
>> are a
>> couple themes to be explored regarding Manson.   There's the  
>> "inherent
>> vice" of US society and what it will make people into - especially
>> relating to the US as a whole and to Manson as a primo example.  And
>> there's the related idea of the ending of the
>> American Hippie Dream - peace and freedom.
>>
>> Also reminds me of the old adage,  "The next time you're in trouble,
>> call a hippie."  This  was said by straights but the thougth gets a
>> new twist from Pynchon -   (Very trite - I know - but someone had to
>> say it.)
>>
>> Bekah
>>
>>
>> On Sep 26, 2009, at 1:52 PM, David Morris wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone noticed how often the Manson murders have been referenced
>>> in IV?  Isn't this contrary to his usual absence of the huge  
>>> elephant?
>>> Holocaust in GR?...
>>>
>>> The Manson Murders in IV have been pushed to the front in IV many
>>> times without any obvious story-relevance.
>>>
>>> Just sayin...
>>
>> http://web.mac.com/bekker2/
>>
>>


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web.com - Microsoft® Exchange solutions from a leading provider -
http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange