Femenist reading of IV

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That certainly left a bad taste in my mou....hmm...maybe another turn of 
phrase would be better.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "alice wellintown" <alicewellintown at gmail.com>
To: "pynchon -l" <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: Femenist reading of IV


I'm sure most of us know the difference between a Lesbian and a
Feminist. And, although most of us know Lesbians who happen to be
Feminists and Feminists who happen to be Lesbians, we don't consider
the "Overlap" all that significant. Sex and Gender, although terms we
often use as synonymous terms  are not synonymous terms. I don't have
a penis. My sex is female. I dress male and seem more male than female
to most observers. I am heterosexual. My sexual orientation, not my
sex, is straight.  I'm married to a masculine heterosexual male. Yes,
he has a penis and no we don't own a dildo or enjoy sex toys. We do
masturbate. He never wears women's clothing. He likes it when I wear a
dress and act like a bitch. It's all quite common if you know enough
people.


Isn't it possible that P uses sexist stereotypes to support his feminist 
novel?

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:07 AM,  <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
> There may be an overlap between lesbianism and feminism, but it's not as 
> great as one might think. There were real feminists out there in the 60s 
> and 70s, but they're not portrayed in IV. Reducing feminism to sexual 
> assertiveness is kind of insulting. And sure, bad girls (and guys) are 
> more interesting than good guys(and girls), but that doesn't imply any 
> feminist underpinnings. The femme fatale (whether she wins or loses) is a 
> sexist stereotype.
>
> Laura
>
> (in rant mode because I'm pre-caffeinated)
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com>
>>Sent: Feb 19, 2010 9:39 AM
>>To: Robin Landseadel <robinlandseadel at comcast.net>
>>Cc: pynchon-l at waste.org
>>Subject: Re: Femenist reading of IV
>>
>>though I have some minor quibbles (are we equating feminist markers with
>>pussy eating?-that sounds weird to me), I would admit that Shasta is the
>>most intriguing character in the book. Doc is a tool (not that kinda tool,
>>well maybe a little bit) for more interesting folks like Coy (but less 
>>than
>>Shasta) he's not that great an observer, having Shasta nail him with that
>>you all wanted to be cops spiel. e.g. (just like I think Frenesi is alot
>>more interesting than Zoyd--maybe Pynchon wanted to give the gals a break
>>after Frenesi and Lake--Shasta seems more with it, together, than the 
>>other
>>two)
>>
>>On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Robin Landseadel <
>>robinlandseadel at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Have to say i more or less agree with "He Who Would Be Alice."
>>>
>>> "Inherent Vice" is just overloaded with feminist markers—Ida Lupino and 
>>> the
>>> "Pussy Eater's Special" among others—little subplots that actively 
>>> address
>>> feminist themes. Of course there is a fair bit of Russ Meyer in the mix 
>>> in
>>> Vineland and to a lesser but similar extent, in IV. It's a little hard 
>>> to
>>> get these two particular conceptual frameworks to jibe together in a 
>>> single
>>> mind, but there you are.
>>>
>>> Not that I'm an Anti-Semenist, mind you.
>>>
>>> Next up: Feminist readings of R. Crumb . . .
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 18, 2010, at 7:29 PM, alice wellintown wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, you have to dive a little deeper into that muff. This stuff
>>>> ain't floating on the surface.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 9:21 PM, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> more like a Semenist reading in my book
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 3:36 PM, alice wellintown
>>>>> <alicewellintown at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps nothing Pynchon has written to date . . .
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/61/61womeninprison.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>



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