Queer Theory & Futurism

[Mark Kohut]

Yes...his pastiches might be like: we are crusted/mashed together with....
the inanimate, to get the most general....we have to go under the superficial surface pastiche................

Again, part of the reason for the sewer and toilet trips..and undersand trips AND, easier to say yes to, the trips into the hollow earth.....which he clearly means as our deeper psychic selves (in some cases)?

--- On Sun, 2/21/10, Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Queer Theory & Futurism
> To: "Mark Kohut" <markekohut at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "Phillip Grayson" <phillip.grayson at gmail.com>, "pynchon -l" <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 1:28 PM
> I wonder, sometimes, about P's
> pastiches. He was, of course using
> pastiche 20-odd years before Jameson made the term a
> characteristic of
> pomo, and he was doing in such a way that he seems almost
> to making a
> pastiche of superficiality as early as V. and CoL49. P's
> pastiches
> seem to point toward something lurking beneath the
> surfaces, hiding
> behind the superficiality of the times....
> 
> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 5:21 AM, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > Little else?
> >
> > Philir writes:
> >> I doubt that.  AtD seems to mock every form of
> pop
> >> literature since WWI, westerns, boys books, of
> course, spy
> >> novels, detective novels, I think most things.
> >> It is, of course, oversimplification, but not less
> valid,
> >> especially in a book that overtly attacks the
> obviousness of
> >> politics, the world, and literature...
> >
> > I would suggest that TRP ususlly shows great
> affection, pays homage, to most of what he also 'mocks' in
> your listing ...........
> >
> > I was thinking of how different his expressed
> blowing-away of Futurism is,
> > and trying to remember what other art movements or art
> forms he is so absolutely savage about, no seeming affection
> whatever.
> >
> > We remember he goes after Beethoven in GR.......
> >
> > And I do remember the surfacing of Anti-Romanticism,
> the historical movement, in ATD, despite his own grounding
> in Romance as Alice will remind us....(But ATD is ALSO a
> deep anti-Romance, i wish I could argue more fully and
> might)
> >
> > --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Phillip Grayson <phillip.grayson at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Phillip Grayson <phillip.grayson at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: Queer Theory & Futurism
> >> To: "Mark Kohut" <markekohut at yahoo.com>
> >> Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 9:31 PM
> >> Little else?
> >> I doubt that.  AtD seems to mock every form of
> pop
> >> literature since WWI, westerns, boys books, of
> course, spy
> >> novels, detective novels, I think most things.
> >> It is, of course, oversimplification, but not less
> valid,
> >> especially in a book that overtly attacks the
> obviousness of
> >> politics, the world, and literature...
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 9:21 PM,
> >> Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Thanks, but I'm having self-doubts over probable
> >> oversimplification....
> >>
> >> He attacks futurism, we know..........but little
> else,
> >> therefore???
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Phillip Grayson <phillip.grayson at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > From: Phillip Grayson <phillip.grayson at gmail.com>
> >>
> >> > Subject: Re: Queer Theory & Futurism
> >>
> >> > To: "Mark Kohut" <markekohut at yahoo.com>
> >>
> >> > Cc: "pynchon -l" <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> >>
> >> > Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 9:15 PM
> >>
> >> > Mmm,
> >>
> >> > Well put.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 8:58 PM,
> >>
> >> > Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
> >>
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > Damn good question I say, and damned if I,
> quick draw
> >> no
> >>
> >> > matter what, have an opinion.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > Quick second thought: prolly. After the
> modernists
> >> created
> >>
> >> > into the modernity they, and TRP, hated, and
> said
> >>
> >> > that....most art after that was compromised
> by being
> >> part of
> >>
> >> > modernity.........???
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > Which may be why 1) the modernists (and
> earlier) seem
> >> to
> >>
> >> > matter most to TRP
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > and 2) why some low artforms---mystery
> novels,
> >> cartoons,
> >>
> >> > movies before they were 'films', etc. matter
> >> most
> >>
> >> > later to TRP.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Phillip Grayson <phillip.grayson at gmail.com>
> >>
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > From: Phillip Grayson <phillip.grayson at gmail.com>
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > Subject: Re: Queer Theory &
> Futurism
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > To: "Monte Davis" <montedavis at verizon.net>
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > Cc: "Mark Kohut" <markekohut at yahoo.com>,
> >>
> >> > "pynchon -l" <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 8:44
> PM
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > Obvious I guess and
> >>
> >> > prolly well explored
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > already, but with all the pastiche and
> such, is
> >> there
> >>
> >> > the
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > possibility that AtD mocks an artistic
> >> deterioration
> >>
> >> > since,
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > say, _Ulysses_ along with a cultural one
> since
> >> WWI?
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 8:40 PM,
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > Monte Davis <montedavis at verizon.net>
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > Mark Kohut sez:
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > you will recall that marinetti's
> >> futurism is
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > savaged big time in AtD...
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > Indeed it is, and the rush of wind that
> the
> >> Futurists
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > loved (re-read the dive-bombing, sport
> with the
> >>
> >> > flying
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > girls) blows straight into
> hair-straight-back,
> >>
> >> > Rockwell
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > Kentish, wind-tunnel Nazi aesthetic:
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > "Roland too became conscious of the
> wind, as
> >> his
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > mortality had never allowed him.
> Discovered it so
> >> . .
> >>
> >> > . so
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > joyful, that the arrow must veer into
> it. The
> >> wind had
> >>
> >> > been
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > blowing all year long, year after year,
> but
> >> Roland had
> >>
> >> > felt
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > only the secular wind . . . he means,
> only his
> >>
> >> > personal
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > wind. Yet . . . Selena, the wind, the
> wind’s
> >>
> >> > everywhere .
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > . . ."
> >>
> >> >
> >>
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> "liber enim librum aperit."
>