Might Profane be gay?

Tue Jun 15 21:27:19 CDT 2010

In the interest of safeguarding my virtue, how far from the dock is "away"?

love,
cfa

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 5:54 PM, David Meyer <davidmeyer81 at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> 'when the ship's away, it isn't gay'
>
> -- Sent from my Palm Pixi
>
> ------------------------------
> On Jun 15, 2010 4:42 PM, Mitchell Nisonoff <mitchnis at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> ... after all, homosexuality among servicemembers in the Navy also is
> somewhat notorious.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Mitchell Nisonoff <mitchnis at yahoo.com>
> To: Mitchell Nisonoff <mitchnis at yahoo.com>; Jude Bloom <
> jude.bloom at gmail.com>
> Cc: Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>; "page at quesnelbc.com" <
> page at quesnelbc.com>; Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>; pynchon -l <
> pynchon-l at waste.org>
> Sent: Tue, June 15, 2010 5:40:15 PM
> Subject: Might Profane be gay?
>
> Profane "could not live in peace" with inanimate objects (p. 32) which,
> under the subject analysis, includes women (e.g., Rachel).
>
> After Profane closed his closed on the subway train, Kook's yelling of
> "Maricon!", although not directed at Profane, gets Profane's attention:
> "Profane's eyes came open." (p. 33)
>
> Maricon is the Spanish derogatory word for a male homosexual (what we call
> today a "gay" person) -- equivalent to the derogatory terms, "fag" or
> "faggot."
>
> Might Profane be gay?
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Mitchell Nisonoff <mitchnis at yahoo.com>
> To: Jude Bloom <jude.bloom at gmail.com>
> Cc: Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>; "page at quesnelbc.com" <
> page at quesnelbc.com>; Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>; pynchon -l <
> pynchon-l at waste.org>; mitchnis at yahoo.com
> Sent: Tue, June 15, 2010 5:10:12 PM
> Subject: Re: V-2nd
>
> ... and when references to all humans invariably will be "man" (sing.) or
> "mankind," but not "men" (pl.).
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Mitchell Nisonoff <mitchnis at yahoo.com>
> To: Jude Bloom <jude.bloom at gmail.com>
> Cc: Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>; "page at quesnelbc.com" <
> page at quesnelbc.com>; Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>; pynchon -l <
> pynchon-l at waste.org>
> Sent: Tue, June 15, 2010 5:03:42 PM
> Subject: Re: V-2nd
>
> Thanks, I think.
>
> I previously wrote:
>
> > "(Inanimate objects could do what they wanted. [Here he corrects what he
> said just before:]  Not what they wanted because things do not want; only
> men.  But things do what they do..."  (pp. 19-20)
> >
> > Here, TRP is making some non-subtle equivalence between inanimate objects
> and women.
>
> You inquired:  Are we sure, though, that when he says things do not want,
> only men, that he's not saying mankind (as in, in days ago, all humans)?
>
> I would say not, especially given, as a number of you already have pointed
> out, that Rachel -- a specific woman -- also is being referenced as
> being inanimate.  He is now proposing that Rachel does what she does as an
> inanimate object does (as distinguished from men, who will do what they
> want).
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Jude Bloom <jude.bloom at gmail.com>
> To: Mitchell Nisonoff <mitchnis at yahoo.com>
> Cc: Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>; "mitchnis at yahoo.com" <
> mitchnis at yahoo.com>; "page at quesnelbc.com" <page at quesnelbc.com>; Mark Kohut
> <markekohut at yahoo.com>; pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> Sent: Tue, June 15, 2010 4:50:42 PM
> Subject: Re: V-2nd
>
> Now that's what I call an answer. Where the hell were you when I suffered
> through Freshman Lit?
>
> Are we sure, though, that when he says things do not want, only men, that
> he's not saying mankind (as in, in days ago, all humans)?
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 15, 2010, at 1:55 PM, Mitchell Nisonoff <mitchnis at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > TRP's ready and distinguishing use of Yiddish slang is, to this day, a
> shorthand badge of New York's Upper West Siders -- irrespective of
> religion.  His spellings indicate a phonetic familiarity with the words:
> >
> > "Benny Profane, a schlemihl..."  (p. 1)
> >
> > "It semed sometimes that he put himself deliberately in the way of
> hostile objects, as if he were looking to get schlimazzeled out of
> existence."
> >
> > "Only something, being a schlemihl, he'd known for years: inanimate
> objects and he could not live in peace." (p. 32)
> >
> > (A standard distinguishment between "schlemiel" and "schimazel" is:
> > A schlemiel is one who always spills his soup, schlimazel is the one on
> > whom it always lands.)
> >
> > See also Latinoisms-slang:
> >
> > "Maricon" (p. 33)
> > "Nueva York" (p. 38)
> >
> > TRP also clearly has imbibed much from Jewish community and Jewish
> religious sources.
> >
> > Profane is "half Catholic" but his mother is Jewish (p. 12), making him a
> Jew under Jewish law.
> >
> > The Catskills is a clear reference to the Jewish summer retreat area.
> New York's "Route 17" is a main road to the Catskills.
> >
> > The "Five Towns" on the south shore of Long Island is notorious since at
> least the 50's for its heavily Jewish population.  Rachel is a clear
> Biblical name; she came for the Five Towns and so is immediately identiable
> as a Jewess.  (Cf. "Maybe,"said Profane, "we can try it next time with a fig
> leaf." (p. 17).)
> >
> > That the "blood of this kingdom" "divert themselves among seemingly
> endless vistas of butterfly shrimp and egg foo young" (p. 19) is hilarious
> in some part because shrimp clearly is not kosher according to Jewish
> dietary laws.  "Pig Bodine" also is clearly treyf.
> >
> > He is explict in his use of Jewish biblical reference here, which also
> shows respect/admiration for Jewish people:
> >
> > "He felt like the Angel of Death, marking the doors of tomorrow's
> victimes in blood.  The purpose of a mezuzah was to fake the Angel out so
> he'd pass by.  On these hundred of so cabins Profane didn't see mezuzah
> one.  So much the worse."    [No Jews:  ugh.]  (p. 23)
> >
> > Cf. prior reference to "mezuzah" on p. 16.
> >
> > I think that this subtle(?) emphases on Jews/Judaism in the first chapter
> of V. gives a clue that the Kabbalah (leaned on heavily in GR) informs TRP's
> views on inanimacy:
> >
> > "(Inanimate objects could do what they wanted. [Here he corrects what he
> said just before:]  Not what they wanted because things do not want; only
> men.  But things do what they do..."  (pp. 19-20)
> >
> > Here, TRP is making some non-subtle equivalence between inanimate objects
> and women.  Feminist he wasn't.
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
> > To: Jude Bloom <jude.bloom at gmail.com>
> > Cc: Page <page at quesnelbc.com>; Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>;
> pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> > Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 11:49:52 AM
> > Subject: Re: V-2nd
> >
> >> By the way: what's all the Jewish stuff in V.?  Don't know if it keeps
> up,
> >> reading it for the first time here.
> >>
> >
> > Israel was quite a controversy at the time. Just becoming a nation and
> > looking for American support. And many, many new European Jewish
> > immigrants and their children just arriving on the American scene. It
> > was a pretty hot topic, replete with cultural ramifications galore.
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 5:25 PM, Jude Bloom <jude.bloom at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> That is some fucked-up shit. Tooth pain isn't like normal pain. Its
> direct
> >> proximity to the brain... teeth have hot electrical wires poking right
> into
> >> the soft grey matter... and as Martin Amis has said, your mouth is where
> you
> >> live.
> >>
> >> In fact the whole subject of writers and teeth is pretty interesting.
> Amis,
> >> Joyce, Nabokov... all epic tooth sufferers.
> >>
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> On Jun 13, 2010, at 2:52 PM, "Page" <page at quesnelbc.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Closer reality connection: when I was growing up, the family dentist
> had
> >>> been a Navy dentist during WWII. I can testify to the man's lack of
> >>> interest
> >>> in whether he was causing pain. At some point I had two wisdom teeth
> >>> extracted. Asked him about pain control, and he said, "Wait at least
> two
> >>> hours. If it still hurts, take two aspirin." Pretty much shot the rest
> of
> >>> that day and all of that night.
> >>>
> >>> Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Reality connection: I have heard a couple of military teeth damage work
> >>> done to foax in my time......
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --"liber enim librum aperit."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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