V-2nd, under the rose

[Carvill, John]

I posted this before, but in case you missed it: having been inspired by IV to watch some John Garfield films, I noticed a snatch of dialogue in 'Force of Evil'.... hang on I'll look it up...  nope can't find it... anyway, one character (a gangster, or a lawyer, or a gangsterish lawyer) is trying to get a more honest character to cooperate, and tells him (I'm paraphrasing all but the crucial phrase):

"...but I mean, this is a chance for you to make a little extra money for yourself, y'understand? On the quiet, under the rose..."

So of course you have to wonder about the chronology, did Pynchon happen upon that phrase somewhere else? Entirely possible of course. Or was he a fan of Garfield and 'Force of Evil' long enough ago to have picked up on that phrase, retained it, and then used it as the title for his short story?



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pynchon-l at waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l at waste.org] On Behalf Of Mark Kohut
Sent: 23 June 2010 15:50
To: pynchon -l
Subject: V-2nd, under the rose

P. 16, a short paragraph that states that Benny has his first intelligence that something----
love of a machine, linking Rachel's MG w Da Conho's machine gun----has been going on 
"under the rose'--in secret for longer and with more people than he ever suspected.

Uh, pretty straightforward presentation of the historical quest, yes? P publishes a
short story with this title that, changed, becomes a chapter in V. Rose appears in
other P works. 
 
http://www.pynchon.pomona.edu/slowlearner/rose.html

See "under the rose' below.....in which Venus makes an appearance

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-sub1.htm
 
A...and N.B. Benny could have had his first hint or first inkling or first suspicion that
love of a machine had been long going on uner the rose............................
 
BUT, he had his first INTELLIGENCE. A word that started out meaning our human 
understanding  but then evolved to mean INFORMATION largely......and
see the full discussion in the link below, if interested, trying to define the word before the 1950s in which it
is generally agreed that 'intelligence' is info gathered IN SECRET. 
 
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol46no3/article02.html
 
And finally, the Central Intelligence Agency has weighed in with the following sentence:
Reduced to its simplest terms, intelligence is knowledge and foreknowledge of the world around us—the prelude to decision and action by US policymakers.