Jonathan Franzen

[Ian Livingston]

And my point is that, right or wrong, public debate is vital. It is
precisely the absence of public dissent that gives the aristocracy
latitude act according to the self-serving principles that led to the
Iraq war and the 2008 fiscal coup d'etat that put so many people out
of their homes. My forebears escaped an unwelcoming Europe aboard the
Mayflower, and, on my Pa's side, one came over with John Smith to
settle in Virginia. I'm about as American as a white kid gets. Some of
my forebears were early American statesmen. One worked with Jefferson
to negotiate the Louisiana Purchase. None of this qualifies me for
anything so long as I abdicate my rights and responsibilities to a
powerful band of self-appointed aristocrats. I don't care who says
what, if they are right or wrong, or if the media focuses on the sound
bites that make them seem hysterically ignorant or outrageously
ingenious. The debate is what shapes the outcome. If the debate
ceases, the aristocrats do what they will and the politicians are
powerless to oppose them because the people, by their silence, consent
to the leadership of the day.

Franzen does appear naive here. So did the kids in the streets in the
sixties and seventies. But the greater naivetee is apparent in the
current trend of relinquishing the power of the voice to the few. If
we the think the few will serve the many, we admit to a most grotesque
refusal to learn the lessons of history. When people say, geez another
idiot gets it wrong, they point three fingers back at themselves and
never get around to doing anything to oppose the status quo.
Disestablishmentarianism should be the steady screech of the people
who hide under the oppressors' skirts, but instead I hear mostly the
dull drone of consent.

I mean, just sayin'.....

On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 1:38 PM, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
> My point in response to Ian and Franzen's quotes linked below is there
> comes a point where one throws up their hands and thinks geez another
> interview, spouting upon this and that and making idiotic statements,
> oh yes, europe is a great place where people get along really well,
> all the malcontents came to America, we were so bad to the indians and
> slavery. wow, the man is really layng down some original and thought
> provoking shit here.
> I think the malcontent bit really bugs me considering the thousands of
> people who came to America for a better life including my relatives
> from lovable starving Europe. I'm not dissing Europe here, just
> Franzen's naive and ill-informed thoughts that's all.
> and then yeah he gets the invite to see Obama. Obama is reading the
> wrong books ;)
>
> rich
>
> On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 4:24 PM,  <mfarcas at mail.com> wrote:
>>
>> http://www.theatlanticwire.com/features/view/feature/Franzen-Obama-Delightful-America-Almost-a-Rogue-State-2392
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
>> To: rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com>
>> Cc: David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>; mfarcas at mail.com; pynchon-l at waste.org
>> Sent: Tue, Oct 26, 2010 6:59 pm
>> Subject: Re: Jonathan Franzen: 'America is almost a rogue state'
>>
>> I'm starting to like Franzen more all the time. Anyone intimidated
>>
>>
>> into silence because of their vocation deserves what they thus consent
>>
>>
>> to. Writers, like teachers, students, ironworkers, plumbers, and hod
>>
>>
>> carriers ought to be heard from. Politicians need the input so they
>>
>>
>> won't be condemned to accepting the voices they do hear--which come
>>
>>
>> from lawyers, plutes, and generals.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 7:40 AM, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> agreed but shouldn't writers be read not heard
>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>> who fucking cares what he thinks personally. that goes for Pynchon, as
>>
>>
>>> well. with that said writers wouldn't be all didactic up my ass
>>
>>
>>> either. nothing worse than being preached to
>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>> i would also say hesitantly america was a rogue state but boy has
>>
>>
>>> obama been a disappointment on that score. nothing's changed. and now
>>
>>
>>> he wants to increase reapproachment with the republicans
>>
>>
>>> post-election. incredible
>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 9:31 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> Of course the neocons would object - he's pointing his finger straight
>>
>>
>>>> at them!  Here's a short list of why he's on target (and he did temper
>>
>>
>>>> the charge with "almost"):
>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>>> 1.  Unprovoked Iraq war justified w/ known lies.
>>
>>
>>>> 2.  Newly classified captives stripping them of all human rights.
>>
>>
>>>> 3.  Torture.
>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 3:52 AM,  <mfarcas at mail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>> Franzen stirring controversy by saying (among other things) that
>>>>> 'America is
>>
>>
>> almost a rogue state'
>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/video/2010/oct/25/jonathan-franzen-freedom
>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>
>>>>> The almost instant reaction of the neocons (which does not come as a
>>
>>
>> surprise):
>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://cifwatch.com/2010/10/25/the-dull-and-throbbing-anti-americanism-of-jonathan-franzen-the-guardian-interview/
>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> "liber enim librum aperit."
>>
>>
>>
>



-- 
"liber enim librum aperit."