V-2 - Chapter 9 - The world is all that the case is

Sat Oct 30 17:34:01 CDT 2010

AH, MAYBE EXACTLY.....

Pynchon via sferics communicates that line and more, all of which may be THE 
CASE as Laura suggests.

"They" Mondaugen and others, reduce it to the narrow meaning of THE WORLD IS ALL 
THAT IS THE CASE.

Here, by the way is a Journal entry of Witt's when he was about the age of 
Pynchon of V. 

WittTweets Wittgenstein Tweets 
Strongly affected by reading Nietzsche. Yet Christianity is still, indeed, the 
only SURE way to happiness. (1914, aged 25)

----- Original Message ----
From: "kelber at mindspring.com" <kelber at mindspring.com>
To: pynchon-l at waste.org
Sent: Sat, October 30, 2010 4:47:47 PM
Subject: Re: V-2 - Chapter 9 - The world is all that the case is

If Pynchon is telling Mondaugen, via sferics, that THE WORLD IS ALL THAT IS THE 
CASE, maybe he's emphasizing that all of the info being transmitted to 
Mondaugen, through ghosts, fever dreams, and captured memories is similarly THE 
CASE.  Myth, repressed memories, covered-up atrocities, private hells that no 
one ever learns of, all play as an important role as scientific and historical 
"facts" do in our understanding of the world.  Hearing is believing.

Laura

-----Original Message-----
>From: Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
>Sent: Oct 30, 2010 4:07 PM
>To: Robin Landseadel <robinlandseadel at comcast.net>, pynchon-l at waste.org
>Subject: Re: V-2 - Chapter 9 - The world is all that the case is
>
>As a failed philosopher, or a philosopher manque as a successful philosopher 
>would call me, I'll Hop On Pop Wittgenstein a little like "Mad Dog' did....
>
>Simplification: Wittgenstein was a genius full of such high intellectual 
>standards,  that he found fault with just about everyone, including himself 
>perhaps most of all. Check out the journals. 
>Russell accepted his genius. tried to get him but knew he didn't and helped him 

>a lot.
>The Tractatus might not have been published then without Russell's intro, 
>misrepresenting Witt, if it does,
>no matter--except to Witt. As if that work would stand or fall because of 
>Russell's intro? 
>
>Robin's links say more than enough, perhaps, for "getting" this line within V. 
>It is a famous line as voracious reading plisters know. 
>
>I'll add this. For Wittgenstein, the Tractatus was meant to solve the questions
>of language and its relation to the world. The line that The World is All That 
>Is the Case meant that Everything in "the world' could be talked about. Combined 
>
>
>with the 
>
>perhaps-more-famous last line, Whereof We Cannot Speak, We Must Pass Over in 
>Silence, it
>meant 'metaphysical questions' like When did Time Begin? and What is the Meaning 
>
>
>
>of Life?-- to be simplistic about it-- could not be talked about meaningfully.
>Meaningful meaning logically, let's say parseable, about the real world of 
>rocks,
>space and other human beings........
>
>I would say for these in V. who get that message in this chapter, the first 
>'logical positivist'
>understanding of the line is what they read. There is nothing in the world, it 
>tells them, that 
>can be logically understood as a "Face in Ev'ry Stone", to use a P example, 
>except for a
>clear visage outlined on a stone's face, so to speak.
>
>Elsewhere in Witt's life and writing we can encounter what some call 'the 
>mystical'... (He carried with him in the trenches of WW1, Tolstoy's very 
>religious and 
>
>moralistic later writings....Tolstoy's self-edited version of The Gospels and 
>other writings. 
>
>These writings were NOT about 'what was the case', say, but had other reasons to 
>
>
>be read and 
>
>admired. Like art, including the best fiction, say many commentators but enuff 
>bombast 
>
>for now.
>[Shakespeare has taught me that 'bombast' was once, part of 'what was the 
>case;---padding in
>a coat.].
>
>
>
>Just call me Little Dog....
>
>In V., here, Robin's links seem to me 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Robin Landseadel <robinlandseadel at comcast.net>
>To: pynchon-l at waste.org
>Sent: Sat, October 30, 2010 10:32:47 AM
>Subject: V-2 - Chapter 9 - The world is all that the case is
>
>        I think I'd like to go back home
>        And take it easy
>        There's a woman that I'd like to get to know
>        Living there
>
>        Everybody seems to wonder
>        What it's like down here
>        I gotta get away from this day-to-day running around,
>        Everybody knows this is nowhere.
>
>
>        Mondaugen remained up in his turret, working diligently at his
>    code, taking occasional breaks to stand out alone on the roof and
>    wonder if he would ever escape a curse that seemed to have been
>    put on him one Fasching: to become surrounded by decadence no
>    matter what exotic region, north or south, he wandered into.
>
>Somehow White flight from the inner city comes to mind, someone's personal 
>demons following them wherever they go, things one realizes one can't honestly 
>continue to blame on "them."
>
>     It couldn't be only Munich, he decided at some point: nor even the fact
>    of economic depression. This was a soul-depression which must
>    surely infest Europe as it infested this house.
>
>Is the statement "The World is all that is the case" an attempt to drive away 
>"irrational" forces, the encroachment of the intellectual wilderness? And does 
>it drive away angels as well as demons? Ariel as well as Caliban? Is that the 
>source of the "Soul-Depression?" The De-Enchantment of the world?
>
>        One night he was awakened by a disheveled Weissmann, who
>    could scarcely stand still for excitement. "Look, look," he cried,
>    waving a sheet of paper under Mondaugen's slowly blinking eyes.
>    Mondaugen read:
>
>        DIGEWOELDTIMSTEALALENSWFASNDEURFUALRLIKST
>
>        "So," he yawned.
>
>        "It's your code. I've broken it. See: I remove every third letter
>    and obtain: GODMEANTNUURK. This rearranged spells Kurt
>    Mondaugen."
>
>        "Well, then," Mondaugen snarled. "And who the hell told you
>    you could read my mail."
>
>        ''The remainder of the message," Weissmann continued, "now
>    reads: DIEWELTISTALLESWASDERFALLIST."
>
>        ''The world is all that the case is," Mondaugen said. ''I've heard
>    that somewhere before." A smile began to spread. "Weissmann, for
>    shame. Resign your commission, you're in the wrong line of work.
>    You'd make a fine engineer: you've been finagling."
>
>        "I swear," Weissmann protested, hurt.
>
>One way I look at this scene is --  "Louis, I think this is the beginning of a 
>beautiful friendship" -- as Rick walks into the end titles. It's like W & M are 

>sharing a college joke, a little sophomoric prank, a little social glue to carry 
>
>
>
>them over to the next novel, which is already in progress. The engineer and the 

>warlord team up here, apparently agreeing on one thing:
>
>
>    2. The Early Wittgenstein
>    2.1 Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus
>        Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus was first published in German
>    in 1921, and then translated — by C.K. Ogden, with F. P. Ramsey's
>    help — and published in English in 1922. It was later re-translated
>    by D. F. Pears and B. F. McGuinness. Coming out of Wittgenstein's
>    Notebooks, written in 1914-16, and correspondence with Russell,
>    Moore and Keynes, and showing Schopenhauerian and other
>    cultural influences, it evolved as a continuation of and reaction to
>    Russell and Frege's conceptions of logic and language. Bertrand
>    Russell supplied an introduction to the book claiming that it "certainly
>    deserves … to be considered an important event in the philosophical
>    world." It is fascinating to note that Wittgenstein thought little of
>    Russell's introduction, claiming that it was riddled with
>    misunderstandings. Later interpretations have attempted to unearth
>    the surprising tensions between the introduction and the rest of the
>    book (or between Russell's reading of Wittgenstein and
>    Wittgenstein's own self-assessment) — usually harping on Russell's
>    appropriation of Wittgenstein for his own agenda.
>
>        The Tractatus's structure purports to be representative of its
>    internal essence. It is constructed around seven basic propositions,
>    numbered by the natural numbers 1-7, with all other paragraphs in
>    the text numbered by decimal expansions so that, e.g., paragraph
>    1.1 is (supposed to be) a further elaboration on proposition 1, 1.22 is
>    an elaboration of 1.2, and so on.
>
>    The seven basic propositions are:
>
>
>    Ogden translation:
>
>    1. The world is everything that is the case.
>    2. What is the case, the fact, is the existence of atomic facts.
>    3. The logical picture of the facts is the thought.
>    4. The thought is the significant proposition.
>    5. Propositions are truth-functions of elementary propositions.
>        (An elementary proposition is a truth function of itself.)
>    6. The general form of truth-function is [p, ξ, N(ξ)].
>        This is the general form of proposition.
>    7. Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.
>
>
>    Pears/McGuinness translation:
>
>    1. The world is all that is the case.
>    2. What is the case — a fact — is the existence of states of affairs.
>    3. A logical picture of facts is a thought.
>    4. A thought is a proposition with sense.
>    5. A proposition is a truth-function of elementary propositions.
>        (An elementary proposition is a truth function of itself.)
>    6. The general form of a truth-function is [p, ξ, N(ξ)].
>           This is the general form of a proposition.
>    7. What we cannot speak about we must pass over in silence.
>
>
>        Clearly, the book addresses the central problems of philosophy
>    which deal with the world, thought and language, and presents a
>    "solution" (as Wittgenstein terms it) of these problems which is
>    grounded in logic and in the nature of representation. The world is
>    represented by thought, which is a proposition with sense, since
>    they all — world, thought, and proposition — share the same logical
>    form. Hence, the thought and the proposition can be pictures of the
>    facts.
>
>        Starting with a seeming metaphysics, Wittgenstein sees the
>    world as consisting of facts (1), rather than the traditional, atomistic
>    conception of a world made up of objects. Facts are existent states
>    of affairs (2) and states of affairs, in turn, are combinations of
>    objects. Objects can fit together in various determinate ways. They
>    may have various properties and may hold diverse relations to one
>    another. Objects combine with one another according to their logical,
>    internal properties. That is to say, an object's internal properties
>    determine the possibilities of its combination with other objects; this
>    is its logical form. Thus, states of affairs, being comprised of objects
>    in combination, are inherently complex. The states of affairs which
>    do exist could have been otherwise. This means that states of affairs
>    are either actual (existent) or possible. It is the totality of states of
>    affairs — actual and possible — that makes up the whole of reality.
>    The world is precisely those states of affairs which do exist.
>
>http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/wittgenstein/
>
>Now, I won't deny that this is all a bit above and beyond my pay grade, but 
>intransigent collector of pointless trivia that I am, can't help but note the 
>passing presence of "Mad Dog" Bertie in this footnote that I've attached to our 

>endless diatribe. There's the suggestion of some major intellectual battleground 
>
>
>
>shared by Russell and Wittgenstein, though it smells a lot like questioning what 
>
>
>
>the meaning of the word "is" is, just like Slick Willie did so many moons ago.
>
>Anyone out there with more philosophical kama sutra oil for this little lovefest 
>
>
>
>is welcome to join in, I'm going back a few pages and watch civilians get 
>bombed.
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>    It's too dark
>    To put the keys
>    In my ignition,
>
>    And the mornin' sun is yet
>    To climb my hood ornament.
>
>    But before too long I might
>    See those flashing red lights
>    Look out, mama,
>    'cause I'm comin' home tonight.
>
>
>
>