Fwd: Fwd: Re: TRTR, Pt 2, C 2 "does there exist such a thing as mermaids, sar?"

[Paul Mackin]

D E L A Y E D . . .

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Fwd: Re: TRTR, Pt 2, C 2 "does there exist such a thing as 
mermaids, sar?"
Date: 	Thu, 28 Jul 2011 10:33:20 -0400
From: 	Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net>
To: 	pynchon-l at waste.org





-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Re: TRTR, Pt 2, C 2 "does there exist such a thing as 
mermaids, sar?"
Date: 	Thu, 28 Jul 2011 10:31:30 -0400
From: 	Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net>
To: 	Richard Ryan <himself at richardryan.com>



On 7/28/2011 10:03 AM, Richard Ryan wrote:
>  Right - and these qualities that Wyatt has, of being set apart from
>  and against the people who surround him, and of his strangeness being
>  defined by his contact with "the numinous" - these are the
>  characteristics that link him distinctively to the spiritually
>  tortured heroes of Dostoevsky.

I believe this sort of thing is known as authorial  creation of a
mythological universe, of a vision of reality in terms of human concerns
and values, but going beyond our usual empirical assumptions about the
nature of reality.

Pynchon makes heavy use of it in GR.

It doesn't mean the authors view of nonmythological view of reality is
any but the standard one.

P


>
>
>  On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 9:05 AM, David Morris<fqmorris at gmail.com>   wrote:
>>  Yes, I was agreeing.  And (like your point to mark re. Gaddis/Elliot)
>>  I think one of the main points of the book is the degradation of
>>  humanity by modern culture (which is what links him to Pynchon).  So
>>  many of the characters in the NYC scenes of TR are so much like
>>  Pynchon's Whole Sick Crew in V.  The ones that contrast with them
>>  (Wyatt) have a deeply spiritual side, and have brushes with the
>>  numinous.
>>
>>  David Morris
>>
>>  On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 5:59 PM, Richard Ryan<himself at richardryan.com>   wrote:
>>>  I *think* David may be agreeing with me (I think).   That sympathy is
>>>  precisely why I wouldn't (at this point in my journey into The
>>>  Recognitions) want to describe Gaddis as a "non-believer."   Aware
>>>  agnostic?  Romantic skeptic?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 5:50 PM, David Morris<fqmorris at gmail.com>   wrote:
>>>>  It's not only that Gaddis WROTE those supernatural sections into TR,
>>>>  it's that he seems sympathetic to those sections, to their having
>>>>  "really" happened in the world of this novel.
>>>>
>>>>  On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Paul Mackin<mackin.paul at verizon.net>   wrote:
>>>>>  On 7/27/2011 4:45 PM, Richard Ryan wrote:.
>>>>>>  If we think that Gaddis is an atheist and a materialist, how do we
>>>>>>  account for mystical/magical events in The Recognitions?  I.e, Wyatt
>>>>>>  seeing his mother's ghost on her death; Wyatt's recuperation after the
>>>>>>  sacrifice of the Barbary Ape; the supernaturally evil power that Brown
>>>>>>  has over Wyatt, etc.?
>>>>>  Also there's no inconsistency in an author's writing about supernatural
>>>>>  goings-on and also not believing they could happen?
>>>>>
>>>>>  Also the reverse is true.
>>>>
>>>
>>>

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