TR Gaddis tears into Dale Carnegie Pt 2 ch 1

[Paul Mackin]

On 6/2/2011 10:12 AM, Mark Kohut wrote:
> Comment from someone who has read Dale Carnegie's book
>
> One could characterize it as a book that just tries to teach one
> to understand where the Other is coming from, to get inside their
> perspective, to Thank them regularly, to find out their interests...........
>
> In other words, to be the human being we have all lost recognition of how to
> be....
>
> All wrapped, of damning course, around using such to become a 'success",
> which of course means monetary..................

Yes, the Dale Carnegie book is sort of a secularized sermon on the mount 
with a material payoff.

I get the portrayal of Mr. Pivner as the well meaning little man trying 
to get along by following the rules and availing himself of the advice 
available to him.

What I don't quite get is the meaning of the ". . . . the Self which had 
ceased to exist the day they stopped seeking it alone."

Is Mr. P making some kind of error in his thinking? If he were smarter, 
might he had tossed out his library and spent his days asking "who am I 
really, really, really?"  What good would that have done?

P



>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Erik T. Burns<eburns at gmail.com>
> To: pynchon-l at waste.org
> Sent: Wed, June 1, 2011 5:01:28 PM
> Subject: Re: TR Gaddis tears into Dale Carnegie Pt 2 ch 1
>
> of course Mr Pivner's problem -- which he thinks reading Carnegie can
> solve -- is actually quite tragic. He cannot connect with people (esp.
> his son) and he replaces that with a strange affection for the
> inanimate (like politely waiting for radio announcers to complete
> their sentence before switching off the receiver). he actually
> believes that Carnegie's book will help him "make friends."
>
> yes, the Gaddis excoriation of Carnegie is thorough and hilarious,
> trenchant criticism of that early self help book which launched a
> gazillion others, each more ridic' than the next; but at the same time
> (as per usual) Gaddis is able to take it beyond just critical
> twittering&  snooty intellectualism and into the human, individual
> reality of a nebbish like Pivner (who is, of course, Otto's father,
> the son able to make friends, but not to influence people, it
> seems....)
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 5:53 PM, Edward A Moore<edmoorester at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> TR Gaddis tears into Dale Carnegie Pt 2 ch 1 (what do we worship?)
>>
>> p285-6
>>
>> "Behind was a veneered secretary  of anonymous century and unavowed
>> design, holding protected behind glass an assortment of books
>> published by the hundred-thousand,
>>
>> treatises on the cultivation of the individual self,
>>
>> prescriptions of superficial alterations in vulgarity read with
>> excruciating eagerness by men alone in big chairs,
>>
>> the three-way lamp turned to its wildest brilliance as they fingered
>> those desperate blazons of individuality tied in mean knots at their
>> throats,
>>
>> fastened monogrammed tie-clasps the more firmly,
>>
>> swung keys on gold-plated monogram-bearing ("Individualized") key-chains,
>>
>> tightened their arms against wallets in inside pockets which held the
>> papers proving their identity beyond doubt to others and in moments of
>> Doubt to themselves,
>>
>> papers in such variety that the bearer himself became their appurtenance,
>>
>> each one contemplating over words in a book (which had sold four
>> million copies:
>>
>> How to Speak Effectively;
>>
>> Conquer Fear;
>>
>> Increase Your Income;
>>
>> Develop Self-Confidence;
>>
>> "Sell" Yourself and Your Ideas;
>>
>> Improve Your Memory;
>>
>> Increase Your Ability to Handle People;
>>
>> Win More Friends;
>>
>> Improve Your Personality;
>>
>> Prepare for Leadership)
>>
>> the Self which had ceased to exist the day they stopped seeking it alone."
>>
>> ed
>>
>