Bin Laden

[Richard Ryan]

On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Michael Bailey
<michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Richard Ryan wrote:
>> Proposition A:  Violence has never produced Peace.
>> Proposition B: Non-violence has never produced Peace.
>>
>> If Props A and B are both true (and I think they clearly are)
>
> how so?  Peace is the absence of violence.
>
> If you mean that an unwillingness to initiate violence has never
> produced peace, I'd disagree: the general reluctance to commit
> violence - on some level it just doesn't feel good - is why we have as
> much peace as we have.  People have to be stirred up, programmed from
> outside or disturbed inside, before they will generally do violence.
>
> if you're saying something like "one person expressing a general
> dislike for violence is laughable" then to some extent I agree, but
> isn't that somewhat of a straw person?
>
> Nonviolence has a hefty lexicon, numerous manifestos, and lots of
> competent practitioners.  It's a useful addition to the world's sheaf
> of philosophies!
>
>> then the
>> only logical conclusion is that violence or non-violence has nothing
>> to do with the establishment of peace. Which explain why the pursuit
>> of justice (for example) yields better results than either the pursuit
>> of violence or non-violence.
>>
>
> sure, let's go after justice.  whether you rule out violence from the
> start or not, the pursuit of justice eventually will lead away from
> violence!
>

True, although the pursuit of justice may lead toward violence in the
short term  (i.e., in the case of the Libyans rebels trying to
overthrow Gaddafi).  It's certainly the case that just societies
embrace peaceful solutions and approaches almost by default.   It may
be a criteria of "just violence" that you have to pursue it
immediately (in self-defense, for example) even if you would almost
never opt for it in the long term.



-- 
Richard Ryan
New York and the World
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Thanks to all who saw VTM's new production!
"Brilliant!";"Superb!" - NYTheatre-wire.com
www.kingstheplay.com