Pynchon and Roth

[Paul Mackin]

On 5/12/2011 8:58 AM, Henry M wrote:
> Jersey Jewish?  Kinda like calling William Carlos Williams, who pretty 
> much never, if ever left the city, "Patterson Protestant."
> Roth's fiction is all about identity, particularly including it's 
> continuation by, and focusing on sex, and it's ending.  Sound 
> familiar?  To suggest that Roth isn't a "word master" because his 
> prose isn't confusing, experimental, poetic (driving isn't poetic to 
> some people, I guess), or just plain modern or post-modern enough for 
> you makes me wonder if using the phrase "word master" in such a way 
> totally sucks all meaning from it.  Pretty lame, even for an alter ego.
I just thought of something.  What would it be like if an author with 
Roth's writing style were to narrate the story of Slothrup, Blicero, 
Katje, et al.   Unimaginable.

P

>
> AsB4,
> ٩(●̮̮̃•̃)۶
> Henry Mu
> http://astore.amazon.com/tdcoccamsaxe-20
>
>
> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 5:34 PM, alice wellintown wrote:
>
>     Two good descriptions of PR.  His sentneces are clean and tight. He
>     knows how to write. His stories don't lock me in. Mostly Jewish Jersey
>     Fair.  Pynchon's a word master. Roth is one of the best best sellers
>     on the market. We might Compare Apples and Orange Acid.
>
>     Roth makes good use of a sentence. Utilitarian is the wrong word for
>     his language skill. He drives. Pynchon flies.
>
>     On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 4:54 PM, <malignd at aol.com
>     <mailto:malignd at aol.com>> wrote:
>     > Utilitarian?  It may not be self-consciously poetic but it's
>     masterful.  It
>     > has tremendous rhythm and drive and propulsive energy.  It never
>     sags, not
>     > for a sentence.  He locks me in quicker than any writer I can name.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > -----Original Message-----
>     > From: Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net
>     <mailto:mackin.paul at verizon.net>>
>     > To: Kai Frederik Lorentzen <lorentzen at hotmail.de
>     <mailto:lorentzen at hotmail.de>>; pynchon-l
>     > <pynchon-l at waste.org <mailto:pynchon-l at waste.org>>
>     > Sent: Wed, May 11, 2011 5:08 am
>     > Subject: Re: Pynchon and Roth
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Yes, with Roth the language is simple and straightforward.  You
>     never have
>     > to consciously pause and ask yourself why did he chose that
>     particular word
>     > or image.   The  language is utilitarian, a means to an end.
>     It's what the
>     > words relate that is important. With Pynchon language is all. 
>     The genius is
>     > not is what he says, which often can't quite be parsed,  but how
>     he says it.
>     >
>     > P
>     >
>     >
>     > On 5/11/2011 6:45 AM, Kai Frederik Lorentzen wrote:
>     >
>     > On 08.05.2011 16:49, Paul Mackin wrote:
>     >
>     > I like Philip Roth.  He's funny, which is pleasurable, and there
>     is constant
>     > struggle with social forces, his family, his women, etc.
>     >
>     > The good thing about Philip Roth for the non-native
>     speaker/reader is, that
>     > the books are written in an easy way. Sure, there is 'frames in
>     frames' and
>     > other pomo sophistication. But on the level of vocabulary and
>     > sentence-construction you always catch it right away. That's
>     different with
>     > Pynchon's books, which also have a wider spectrum of leitmotifs.
>     Philip Roth
>     > is always primarily writing about Philip Roth. Actually I
>     haven't read him
>     > lately, but I remember "The Counterlife" and "Operation Shylock"
>     very well.
>     > Both part of my personal canon. Perhaps this is because these
>     books leave
>     > the relatively small social life-world of the upper intellectual
>     middle
>     > class of New Jersey. There's more of the not so "funny" world in
>     it, but
>     > it's still that "pleasurable" straightforward style. And Roth is
>     writing
>     > excellent dialogue. Better than Pynchon, no doubt. But Pynchon,
>     who has no
>     > talent for clarity, is imo the far more poetic prose-writer.
>     Pynchon can
>     > evoke goose-flesh and hyperventilation. He's channeling the
>     Orphic stream
>     > ...
>     >
>     > KFL
>     >
>     > PS: Of course this doesn't mean that Tom can't be funny -- "'And
>     considered
>     > subjectively,' added Dr. V. Ganesh Rao of the Calcutta
>     University, 'as an
>     > act of becoming longer or shorter, while at the same time
>     turning, among
>     > axis whose unit vector is not familiar and comforting 'one' but the
>     > altogether disquieting square root minus one. If you were a vector,
>     > mademoiselle, you would begin in the 'real' world, change your
>     length, enter
>     > an 'imaginary' reference system, rotate up to three different
>     ways, and
>     > return to 'reality' a new person. Or vector.'/'Fascinating. But
>     ... human
>     > beings aren't vectors. Are they?'/'Arguable, young lady. As a
>     matter of
>     > fact, in India, the Quaternions are now the basis of a modern
>     school of
>     > Yoga, a discipline which has always relied on such operations as
>     stretching
>     > and turning. Here in the traditional 'Triangle Asana', for
>     example' --- he
>     > stood and demonstrated --- 'the geometry is fairly
>     straightforward. But soon
>     > one moves on to more advanced forms, into the complex spaces of the
>     > Quaternions ...' He shifted a few dishes, climbed on the table,
>     announced
>     > 'The Quadrantal Versor Asana,' and commenced a routine which
>     quickly became
>     > more contortionistic and now and then you'd say
>     contrary-to-fact, drawing
>     > the attention of other diners and eventually the maître d', who
>     came running
>     > over waving a vehement finger and was two steps away from the
>     table when Dr.
>     > Rao abruptly vanished" (Against the Day, p. 539). Oh Logik des
>     > Verschwindens!
>


>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > I'm not sure sure I wouldn't quite enjoy a books full of
>     Blicero.  He was a
>     > pretty marvelous creation.
>     >
>     > P
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>
>

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