Pynchon and Roth
Paul Mackin
mackin.paul at verizon.net
Thu May 12 11:12:54 CDT 2011
On 5/12/2011 10:54 AM, Mark Kohut wrote:
> I just thought of something. What would it be like if an author with
> Roth's writing style were to narrate the story of Slothrup, Blicero,
> Katje, et al. Unimaginable.
> there is Sabbath's Theater....
Sabbath and Blicero are alike in that neither makes compromises in their
search for authenticity.
Of course, Sabbath's unbending trajectory to destruction leaves no space
for reading Rilke.
Not that Sabbath couldn't have been made to reach for the stars.
But would reaching for the stars be a good fit for Roth?
I don't know.
p
>
> P
>
>>
>> AsB4,
>> ٩(●̮̮̃•̃)۶
>> Henry Mu
>> http://astore.amazon.com/tdcoccamsaxe-20
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 5:34 PM, alice wellintown wrote:
>>
>> Two good descriptions of PR. His sentneces are clean and tight. He
>> knows how to write. His stories don't lock me in. Mostly Jewish
>> Jersey
>> Fair. Pynchon's a word master. Roth is one of the best best sellers
>> on the market. We might Compare Apples and Orange Acid.
>>
>> Roth makes good use of a sentence. Utilitarian is the wrong word for
>> his language skill. He drives. Pynchon flies.
>>
>> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 4:54 PM, <malignd at aol.com
>> <mailto:malignd at aol.com>> wrote:
>> > Utilitarian? It may not be self-consciously poetic but it's
>> masterful. It
>> > has tremendous rhythm and drive and propulsive energy. It
>> never sags, not
>> > for a sentence. He locks me in quicker than any writer I can name.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net
>> <mailto:mackin.paul at verizon.net>>
>> > To: Kai Frederik Lorentzen <lorentzen at hotmail.de
>> <mailto:lorentzen at hotmail.de>>; pynchon-l
>> > <pynchon-l at waste.org <mailto:pynchon-l at waste.org>>
>> > Sent: Wed, May 11, 2011 5:08 am
>> > Subject: Re: Pynchon and Roth
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Yes, with Roth the language is simple and straightforward. You
>> never have
>> > to consciously pause and ask yourself why did he chose that
>> particular word
>> > or image. The language is utilitarian, a means to an end.
>> It's what the
>> > words relate that is important. With Pynchon language is all.
>> The genius is
>> > not is what he says, which often can't quite be parsed, but
>> how he says it.
>> >
>> > P
>> >
>> >
>> > On 5/11/2011 6:45 AM, Kai Frederik Lorentzen wrote:
>> >
>> > On 08.05.2011 16:49, Paul Mackin wrote:
>> >
>> > I like Philip Roth. He's funny, which is pleasurable, and
>> there is constant
>> > struggle with social forces, his family, his women, etc.
>> >
>> > The good thing about Philip Roth for the non-native
>> speaker/reader is, that
>> > the books are written in an easy way. Sure, there is 'frames in
>> frames' and
>> > other pomo sophistication. But on the level of vocabulary and
>> > sentence-construction you always catch it right away. That's
>> different with
>> > Pynchon's books, which also have a wider spectrum of
>> leitmotifs. Philip Roth
>> > is always primarily writing about Philip Roth. Actually I
>> haven't read him
>> > lately, but I remember "The Counterlife" and "Operation
>> Shylock" very well.
>> > Both part of my personal canon. Perhaps this is because these
>> books leave
>> > the relatively small social life-world of the upper
>> intellectual middle
>> > class of New Jersey. There's more of the not so "funny" world
>> in it, but
>> > it's still that "pleasurable" straightforward style. And Roth
>> is writing
>> > excellent dialogue. Better than Pynchon, no doubt. But Pynchon,
>> who has no
>> > talent for clarity, is imo the far more poetic prose-writer.
>> Pynchon can
>> > evoke goose-flesh and hyperventilation. He's channeling the
>> Orphic stream
>> > ...
>> >
>> > KFL
>> >
>> > PS: Of course this doesn't mean that Tom can't be funny --
>> "'And considered
>> > subjectively,' added Dr. V. Ganesh Rao of the Calcutta
>> University, 'as an
>> > act of becoming longer or shorter, while at the same time
>> turning, among
>> > axis whose unit vector is not familiar and comforting 'one' but the
>> > altogether disquieting square root minus one. If you were a vector,
>> > mademoiselle, you would begin in the 'real' world, change your
>> length, enter
>> > an 'imaginary' reference system, rotate up to three different
>> ways, and
>> > return to 'reality' a new person. Or vector.'/'Fascinating. But
>> ... human
>> > beings aren't vectors. Are they?'/'Arguable, young lady. As a
>> matter of
>> > fact, in India, the Quaternions are now the basis of a modern
>> school of
>> > Yoga, a discipline which has always relied on such operations
>> as stretching
>> > and turning. Here in the traditional 'Triangle Asana', for
>> example' --- he
>> > stood and demonstrated --- 'the geometry is fairly
>> straightforward. But soon
>> > one moves on to more advanced forms, into the complex spaces of the
>> > Quaternions ...' He shifted a few dishes, climbed on the table,
>> announced
>> > 'The Quadrantal Versor Asana,' and commenced a routine which
>> quickly became
>> > more contortionistic and now and then you'd say
>> contrary-to-fact, drawing
>> > the attention of other diners and eventually the maître d', who
>> came running
>> > over waving a vehement finger and was two steps away from the
>> table when Dr.
>> > Rao abruptly vanished" (Against the Day, p. 539). Oh Logik des
>> > Verschwindens!
>>
>
>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I'm not sure sure I wouldn't quite enjoy a books full of
>> Blicero. He was a
>> > pretty marvelous creation.
>> >
>> > P
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
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