Noam Chomsky's statement on killing of Osama bin Laden

[Mark Kohut]

And I think I might be a figure self-condemned by such committed actions. A guy 
who just likes to read and post and argue. In my personal mythology, perhaps 
condemned by what i see as some deep meanings of Vineland, which we all batted 
around here. Namely, that it was not being more active---not just in protest but 
in local efforts of government and education that let the sixties' idealism 
wither ---to be replaced by those who took power because they
wanted power......




 


----- Original Message ----
From: Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
To: pynchon-l at waste.org
Sent: Mon, May 16, 2011 1:40:54 AM
Subject: Re: Noam Chomsky's statement on killing of Osama bin Laden

I wish there were easier and clearer alternatives and answers that had greater 
political viability. Alas there are no easy choices. I have decided to abandon 
the 2 party game and try to help independents and the Green Party, weak as it 
is, and to engage in direct actions and to turn my acre into a sustainable 
permaculture zone. I also work with the Quakers. I wanted to believe that Obama 
was what he said but I deeply believe that there is no promise for the future of 
the earth and her children in that direction. I don't mean to be strident and I 
could be wrong, but have to follow my convictions and speak them.  I am not 
bitter (though occasionally pissed off)but oddly happy ever since I decided to 
follow this path. I also agree that Chomsky's thoughts on Bin laden were without 
nuance and probably unhelpful. 


On May 15, 2011, at 7:55 PM, Mark Kohut 
> I know this isn't directed at me, but I just want to add, Joseph, after our 
>last 
>
> exchange---
> and with statements of your vision (if I got it right)  I alluded to positively 
>
> in another post or two I made 
> 
> last evening, 
> I think I agree with a lot of your observations about our--US; West; 
> world's--militaristic undergirding,
> about the slow--and sometimes faster---turn to undemocratic decision-making; to 
>
> the creep of "friendly--and
> very not so---fascism" and more...................
> 
> My general love of Pynchon is because of his vision toward seeing that 
> stuff.....
> 
> I guess I see my politics that partly comes out of the above, differently than 

> you do yours........
> 
> And I'm often unhappy with mine....but so be it.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
> To: pynchon-l at waste.org
> Sent: Sun, May 15, 2011 7:12:09 PM
> Subject: Re: Noam Chomsky's statement on killing of Osama bin Laden
> 
> 
> On May 15, 2011, at 10:02 AM, alice wellintown wrote:
> 
>> Actually, although quite difficult to measure, the growth of democracy
>> continues at an astounding pace.
> 
> Democracy is growing where the US has  lost control:  most of the southern 
> Americas but most tenuous in Mexico, Columbia and  Honduras where our influence 
>
> is strongest.  The hunger for democracy is strong and growing across the world 

> and not least in places where we have supported dictators like Mubarak. My 
> argument is entirely about the the US military economic empire and its 
> corrupting effects on Constitutional Law and democratic process here and 
> abroad.. The point about energy is that our current  bi-partisan solution is 
>the 
>
> anti-democratic use of force, the propping up of a predatory and still 
> unregulated banking system, and the denial of meaningful measures to address 
> carbon emissions, or conserve energy .  
> 
> 
> Things are not getting better. The Gulf is being turned into a dead zone, we 
>are 
>
> at the beginning of a long period of climate catastrophes like the flooding in 

> the large river systems  and droughts in many regions, we rely on unsustainable 
>
> agricultural practices, and we spend an insane  amount of money on wars that 
>are 
>
> doing far more harm than good. The point is not about democracy as an idea  
>with 
>
> global appeal. It's about us. Where is the great democratic improvement in 
>Iraq. 
>
> How is the US exhibiting or promoting the  best values of our history. 
> 
> 
> At any rate democracy is useless if it leads to fracking, wars of aggression, 
> investment scams  and  mountaintop removal.  But these problems are not caused 

> by a tyranny of the majority , but the ability of the elite to obstruct the 
>will 
>
> of the people. Obama is on the side of that elite. His promises sounded good 
>but 
>
> they were all lies.  One more president to substitute military adventures  and 

> wall street deals for the courage of his stated convictions.