NP - And Greece created Europe: the cultural legacy of a nation in crisis

[Keith Davis]

Well said, Joseph.

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 10:14 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> No one forced German and French Banks to make so many loans to governments
> indulging in unsustainable largesse. But underlying all of this is the
> unsustainable energy requirements of capitalist growth. A growth that is
> not so much the creation of wealth as the concentration of power in the
> hands of master con-men, and generalissimos.  Nobody is in charge.. It's
> just competing delusions, death-star gunners,  hordes of zombies in fast
> moving engines of planetary destruction all working for ad agencies, ponzi
> banks,  mining operations, drug dealers.  N
>
> The thing is there is no option of "fixing" this mess. A large transition
> is overdue and inevitable..Why be afraid of letting the big banks die? The
> sooner people face the future without dragon lairs in their dreams the
> better.  Small governments that can't afford wars, small banks accountable
> to local realities, small farms,  small cities, small towns, no
> heirarchies, all leadership collegial and transparent.. Unnatural and
> uncontrolled growth is called cancer.
> On Nov 12, 2011, at 12:31 AM, Ian Livingston wrote:
>
> History is a fountainhead of information and instruction, but far too
> shifty to base current economic loyalties upon. You won't find many
> folks more philhellennic than I, but I wouldn't intentionally give a
> Greek my credit card. I would, however, debate ideas endlessly with a
> Greek before most Americans I know.
>
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 2:50 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/jonathanjonesblog/2011/nov/03/greece-europe-cultural-eurozone-crisis
>
>
> Let us not forget that Europe began in Greece. The idea of the
>
> European continent as a cultural unity dates back to ancient Greece in
>
> more ways than one.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> "Less than any man have I  excuse for prejudice; and I feel for all
> creeds the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the
> trust in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments
> of darkness groping for the sun. I know no more about the ultimates
> than the simplest urchin in the streets." -- Will Durant
>
> On Nov 11, 2011, at 8:50 AM, David Morris wrote:
>
> 1. The bailout is *Greek debt* owed to German banks.
> 2. The Euro can't be delvaued differently in different coutries.  So,
> yes, Greece leaving the Euro is one solution.
> 3.  Austerity is a foolish solution to a recession. but a recurrent
> foolishness.
>
> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Richard Fiero <rfiero at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It's not clear to me why the Atlantic article makes any sense.
>
> 1. The bailout is not to the Greek people but to German and French banks.
>
> 2. Greece buys more than it produces and should devalue its currency making
>
> imports into Greece more expensive and encouraging domestic production.
> That
>
> would make Greek exports more competitive. The problem is that the Euro is
>
> not a Greek sovereign currency.
>
> 3. Greek austerity will put German workers out of work.
>
>
> David Morris wrote:
>
>
>
>
> http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/11/the-financial-folly-of-fairness/248216/
>
>
> "It is obvious that either Germany is going to have to guarantee
>
> massive ongoing fiscal transfers to the PIIGS, or Greece and probably
>
> Italy are going to have to undergo a massively contractionary
>
> austerity program, or they will have to leave the euro.  These three
>
> choice exclude both each other, and any other mathematically possible
>
> outcome."
>
>
> http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/11/the-financial-folly-of-fairness/248216/
>
> "It is obvious that either Germany is going to have to guarantee
> massive ongoing fiscal transfers to the PIIGS, or Greece and probably
> Italy are going to have to undergo a massively contractionary
> austerity program, or they will have to leave the euro.  These three
> choice exclude both each other, and any other mathematically possible
> outcome."
>
> [...]
>
> "You can try to explain to all of them why their sense of outrage is
> rather beside the point in the face of a looming financial explosion
> which is going to make everyone much worse off if it reaches critical
> mass.  You can also go home and try to explain this to your microwave,
> for all the good it will do.  As anyone who has ever spoken to a five
> year old knows, the sense of fairness is one of the most primal and
> intractable cognitive instincts we have.  In the best of times, it
> takes years to change public opinion about what is fair.  These are
> not the best of times, and we do not have years."
>
> "I am very much afraid that the euro zone is about to plunge us into
> phase two of the global financial crisis--and that as with the Great
> Depression, phase two may be even worse than the dismal years we've
> just endured.    In search of fairness, we may all get a lot more
> justice than any of us really wants."
>



-- 
www.innergroovemusic.com
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