mic check goes Presidential

Sat Nov 26 19:29:39 CST 2011

That is not correct . The first Tarp bailout package had gone through under Bush, with senator Obama's support. But about a third of the program was passed and managed by Obama Geithner. There were also huge loans at like .00X % so all banks had to do was borrow money and buy T-bills ( make a bet that people would keep paying taxes) to make a shit-load of money at taxpayer expense. Which is one of the things they did.  80% of citizens( fairly evenly distributed politically ) opposed the bailout. Many experts did oppose it or wanted it done very differently, either federal takeover of banks, greater disclosure of actual assets, agreement to limit executive bonuses  etc.  In the end quite a bit more money has been disbursed to banks under Obama than Bush. Elizabeth Warren was assigned as chair of Congressional oversight panel to oversee TARP, Again and again she called for greater transparency and oversight and was ignored on most points. She was a true expert who had devoted much time and research into ways to reform the system to make it fairer and more accountable to consumers.  The support for TARP mostly came from MSM know-nothings, who never displayed a clear understanding of the whole thing.   Have you seen Inside Job? It's an important historic documentary and very well made and leavened with humor, but it constitutes a powerful refutation of the MSM version of the 2008 crash, and provides a great many reasons to be very skeptical of MSM expertise. 

If those major network guys knew their heads from a hole in the ground they would have seen the crash coming. They didn't, including Krugman. Here are some writers and economists who did predict what would happen and why: Nouriel Roubini, Nicole Foss, Danny Schecter, Jim Kunstler, Nassim Taleb, Marc Faber, Peter Schiff.  A mix of lefties , righties, gold bugs and  thinkers who ignore fashion and infotainment and try to see things as they are.  Getting it right does not mean jack-shit to the MSM: you probably have never herd of most of these people and they are NOT now more frequent guests on PBS the Times CBS NBC or the WSJ. 

On Nov 26, 2011, at 2:51 AM, Albert Rolls wrote:

> The bank bailout was actually voted on before Obama became president, though he voted for it, I believe. The banks came to Bush, though the anti-Obama crowd seems to want voters to believe they came to Obama. Boehner, if I recall correctly, cried as he begged Republicans in Congress to vote for it. I don't know what would have happened without it; everyone whose expertise suggests s/he knows what s/he is talking about says very bad shit. I don't know if I'd care, even if it was an unwise indifference, if I were among the poorest 15% or even jobless with a huge student loan to pay, but I'm at least willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the opinion of the people I'm told are experts. An undergrad philosophy profesor that I had used to ask his students to prove to him, "who believed the sun went around the earth," that the earth went around the sun, something we freshman couldn't do, and thus taught, at least me, that I'm often relying on what people I'm told are experts say. I used to try that exercise out on other people; often their answers were some variation on I see it. Those people would have seen the same thing, or a lot less, as Ptolemy saw, as none were astronomers or sailors, though I guess sailors don't use the sky too much anymore. That's not to say we shouldn't be pissed off what is/has been happening, but I don't blame Obama and think those blaming him are either misguided or in search of votes. Whoever is voted in next time around isn't going to quickly improve anything. The question is who do people want to oversee that lack of improvement. Given the choice before us, I know who I want.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Robert Mahnke <rpmahnke at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Nov 26, 2011 1:33 AM
>> To: Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
>> Cc: "pynchon-l at waste.org" <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>> Subject: Re: mic check goes Presidential
>> 
>> No other Democratic President ever delivered on healthcare reform. Not saying the guy has been perfect, but sheesh. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On Nov 25, 2011, at 9:35 AM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> It isn't as though Obama would be remembered as the president who stood up for the poorest or the people losing their homes to predatory banks without paper mortgage agreements because they ignored the law. Neither will he be remembered as the president who imposed tough new restraints on the financial firms who went bankrupt and lost trillions of investor dollars.and came to him for a bailout.  Right now he would be remembered as the POTUS who promised dramatic change and delivered or fought for zip.
>>> On Nov 25, 2011, at 12:06 PM, Henry M wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I'd love to know the nature of any middle that I am excluding.  In fact, i don't even see these things as being connected enough to have middles.  
>>>> 
>>>> It's perfectly possible to be on the same side as OWS intends to be, to be against the spraying of occupiers by campus cops and in Oakland in California, but to at the same recognize that when people break laws, what they are doing is inherently illegal, and to also believe that if OWS doesn't start doing something new, something that directly improves some situation, and soon, it will be remembered only as a bunch of kids who had a good idea, but who ended up accomplishing nothing beyond their first month's accomplishment of getting the 99% vs. 1% meme into a more public space than it had been, while eschewing any mention of the 15% of people in the USA who are live in poverty and who couldn't make it to the weenie-roast.
>>>> 
>>>> AsB4,
>>>> ٩(●̮̮̃•̃)۶
>>>> Henry Mu
>>>> http://astore.amazon.com/tdcoccamsaxe-20
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Henry--
>>>> 
>>>> My pynchon-related critique is that you are using the either-or, excuded middle bad shit---and anti-Pynchonian--- perspective that you accuse most lefties of
>>>> using....
>>>> 
>>>> Not all are.
>>>> 
>>>> Mark
>>>> 
>>>> From: Henry M <scuffling at gmail.com>
>>>> To: Pynchon Liste <pynchon-l at waste.org> 
>>>> Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 11:27 AM
>>>> 
>>>> Subject: Re: mic check goes Presidential
>>>> 
>>>> My mistake; Obama has spoken well of OWS but not addressed the situation in California, which is of course not a systemic, national problem, but one confined to a city or two and a campus.  Such direct criticism would be inappropriate for the president of the USA to speak about, particularly during ongoing investigations.   The Homeland Security red herring stinks;  I have yet to see any credible reason to believe that Homeland Security coordinated the "crackdowns," and even if they did, where is the harm in that?  Thousands of people camping out in a city is NOT really a good thing, no matter what side they're on or how entertaining those people are.
>>>> 
>>>> To hold Obama responsible for everything that happens in the USA is childish, at best.  It also plays into the plans of Republicans who would not only refrain from issuing a statement against police in one city out of the whole country, but who would support using national guard troops against demonstrators if they win more power in 2012.  
>>>> 
>>>> The right has done a wonderful job of exacerbating OWS and other impractical lefties impatience with Obama and the Dems, and I find it surprising that some lefties on this list, people who at least in reading ATD and Vineland were exposed to the intricacies and variations of us/them politics, can be so doctrinaire as to give up the USA into the hands of people whose expressed political purposes are so at odds with everything that us leftists want.
>>>> 
>>>> AsB4,
>>>> ٩(●̮̮̃•̃)۶
>>>> Henry Mu
>>>> http://astore.amazon.com/tdcoccamsaxe-20
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 5:35 PM, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> henry, like joe I have not heard where and when Obama criticized police violence against Occupiers or UC Davis students or .....
>>>> I get lots of focussed news and a google search also reveals no mention.
>>>> 
>>>> since Homeland Security was involved (somehow) in at least being aware of the coordianted Occupy crackdowns,
>>>> I am still holding the Obama admin liable for their silence until you prove to me I should apologize.......
>>>> 
>>>> (I, by the way, am all in accord with your belief in democratic action to make a difference but I see Occupier presence
>>>> as a quiet action statement)
>>>> 
>>>> From: Henry M <scuffling at gmail.com>
>>>> To: Pynchon Liste <pynchon-l at waste.org> 
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:37 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: mic check goes Presidential
>>>> 
>>>> Unless one purposely ignore what Obama does in the pursuit of continuing to believe that he doesn't do any of the things that you want him to do, then you must have heard that Obama has criticized the violence by police against occupiers.  I used to only expect blinders on the right, but the years (and actually considering what I read of Pynchon and others) have, for better or for worse, shown me that the left is almost equally in love with hearing it's own voices an ignoring facts, and more's the pity.
>>>> 
>>>> AsB4,
>>>> ٩(●̮̮̃•̃)۶
>>>> Henry Mu
>>>> http://astore.amazon.com/tdcoccamsaxe-20
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 2:21 AM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>>>> The point is to hold all politicians accountable to defending  and enforcing  constitutional legal process, which is, after all the job description. Why don't you explain to us Henry why poor Obama can't tell the Police to use restraint and to stop  beating and pepper spraying peaceful protestors in public places? 
>>>> 
>>>> On Nov 23, 2011, at 1:42 PM, Henry M wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Another example of OWS being nothing more than the sound and fury that they accuse all politicians of being.  If OWS wants any real cred, why isn't it gathering and distributing food in areas of people who are too poor (15% of USA is classified as in poverty) to go camp out and travel with them?  How about educating people about the history of socialism and civil disobedience in the USA?  
>>>>> 
>>>>> The crimes against occupiers (mainly in California) have become OWS's raison d'etre, and after that, self-serving student loan forgiveness that would leave future students with very little opportunity to secure loans.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Very Pynchonian, IMO.
>>>>> 
>>>>> AsB4,
>>>>> ٩(●̮̮̃•̃)۶
>>>>> Henry Mu
>>>>> http://astore.amazon.com/tdcoccamsaxe-20
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> That wonderful Occupy phenomenon, the mic check, jst happened to Pres Obama!..check it out!
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.thenation.com/blog/164756/occupyusa-blog-tuesday-nov22-frequent-updates
>>>>> 
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