ATD question about Lake's speech (217)

[jochen stremmel]

out from under

2012/4/30 Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net>:
> On 4/30/2012 10:23 AM, Mark Kohut wrote:
>>
>> Matthew Cissell writes:
>> Many of the first people to pass through the Cumberland gap, which
>> allowed passage through the mountians, were catholics from Maryland who
>> wanted to escape the increasing intolerance towards catholics there.
>> Could the Traverses have crossed the same mountains, albeit further
>> south and a bit later, as Mason and Dixon?
>>
>> Oh, check out those piled up prepositions. Somebody mentioned that in
>> Munich and I think also in Lublin conferences (same person I believe);
>> he argued it was a way to create disjointed syntax, or something like
>> that. I just recall a british friend teasing me about american phrasal
>> verbs with 3 prepostions. For example. "Y'all betta get on off down the
>> road." People in Chicago do not speak like that.
>>
>> ciao
>> mc otis
>> Paul and Matthew,
>> I am intrigued by the Appalachia remark, since I grew up and have
>> returned to a periphery area of Appalachia---Pittsburgh, PA. (NEVER
>> heard or at least never remembered the area being called Appalachian
>> when I grew up----since it wanted to be Other, I'm sure. )
>> I also think Pynchon is so good with language even in dialogue
>> characterization---even if we think characterization is not a strength
>> nor a major interest in some of the works. Look at the "what it is,
>> is..." and that he has 7 (seven) OED entries for first print usage of
>> certain words...[incl. "shrink"!]
>> We also know Pynchon uses certain older meanings of words from the
>> beginning---they are there in V. (see wiki, early pages even)
>> Paul speculates so interestingly: "The Traverses must have arrived early
>> in the New World, remained isolated in
>> Appalachia, until moving west in the 19th Century."
>> According to Vineland, the Traverse clan began (in the fictions) as
>> loggers in the Pacific Northwest. Did they get there from appalachia
>> in the 19th Century? The family heads WERE adventurous, courageous for
>> survival at least, so very maybe. I love the possibility that TRP
>> might show this in what the dictionaries call "archaic' language,
>> embedding the Traverses deep into early American history silently.
>> The only other writer I have read who does capture some of the historic
>> speech of largely Scottish-Irish--English immigrants to the Appalachian
>> area, some of whose speech patterns/usages survive, is Cormac McCarthy,
>> although
>> I am sure there are others (and there are some good local-area writers
>> who seem realistically accurate, but they mostly capture contemporary
>> talk).
>
>
>
> Those triple prepositions Matthew mentions kind of do suggest hill country
> origins. I couldn't comment with any assurance.
>
> Double prepositions are common in Urban American speech, though as I recall
> High school English teachers taught different.
>
> out of
>
> off of
>
> P
>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: alice wellintown <alicewellintown at gmail.com
>> <mailto:alicewellintown at gmail.com>>
>> To: pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org <mailto:pynchon-l at waste.org>>
>> Cc:
>> Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 3:30 PM
>> Subject: Re: ATD question about Lake's speech (217)
>>
>> What other examples of Appalachian speech by characters can we
>> identify? And, is the use of "behind" to mean "in the future" or "yet
>> to come" Appalachian? Maybe it's a mistake.
>>
>>  > The Traverses must have arrived early in the New World, remained
>> isolated in
>>  > Appalachia, until moving west in the 19th Century.
>>  >
>>  > Maybe.
>>
>>
>