Fw: Back to AtD. Music of the Spheres-- Not
Phillip Greenlief
pgsaxo at pacbell.net
Wed Jul 25 13:06:24 CDT 2012
i will just comment on the theoretical aspect of these musical elements - you
folks can interpret however you like.
indeed, the lydian scale uses the sharp 4 (in this case, that's how you have to
think of it. you can't think of it as the flat 5, because the perfect 5th is
still a part of the scale - you can't have a scale that has a b5 and a P5).
if you are familiar with music and scales i am talking about a diatonic (fancy
name for *scale*) construct that goes like this: C, D, E, F#, G, A, B, C -
that's a C major scale (that usually has no sharps of flats) with a raised,
augmented, or sharp 4 (so many terms!) - it's called the 4 because it is the
fourth step in the scale.
despite the fact that this note (the #4 or b5) is a part of the scale, it is
actually thought of as a "bright" tonality - it is seen as light, pretty,
beautiful (stravinsky uses this scale in his composition PASTORAL, a gorgeous
little piece for woodwind quintet) ... this is interesting, because the # 4 is
the same note as the flat 5 ... so the note has a kind of duality. some see it
(if used in the lydian scale) as pretty and beautiful - some see the note as
evil (indeed, during the renaissance the b5 was out of bounds - composers could
not use it - it was against all rules and laws of theory - people actually
thought it could summons the devil). of course, jazz musicians, whom pynchon
seems to admire, use it with relish.
this note is also interesting to me because it sits at the very center of the
octave. the perfect 5th and perfect 4th were called "perfect" back in the day
because of their position in the overtone series (gosh, this is going to get
really complicated if i describe the series - but the easiest way to describe
the overtone series is that there are a lot of vibrations that occur when a note
is sounded - the note you actually hear is called the Fundamental - but there
are other notes that are vibrating at the same time - but your ear is only able
to focus on the fundamental.
anyway, if you look at the octave, the tritone (#4, b5) is dead center. the
other intervals are strong and ring clearly - if you have a piano at your
disposal, just place C and F at the same time, or C and G at the same time and
you'll see what i mean - because of their position in the overtone series, they
produce a very strong, grounded, harmony. the #4 or b5 has a lot of gravity to
it, it's a kind of fulcrum, if you like. again, if you have a piano, play C and
F# and the C above and see how it sounds. ....
onward ...
you also refer to the use of Phrygian scale in AtD - this scale is quite
different - there is nothing ambiguous about it. it is thought of as a "darker"
scale (this is the kind of nonsense adjectives used by musicologists, don't
shoot the messenger). you find this scale in flamenco music and also in music
from middle-europe - which makes sense, yashmeen and that crew are traversing
this area in AtD. you play this scale and bingo - it is rife with cultural
associations as discussed in earlier posts.
this scale is constructed differently - it is merely a natural minor scale with
a b2, or minor 2nd. if we think of C as our tonality, it goes like this: C, Db,
Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb, C ... it has the minor 3rd, 6th and 7th that it inherited from
the natural minor scale but also has a flat 2nd. a great scale, kids!
as i said, i think there is little ambiguity about the use of this tonality.
whereas, the lydian thing is kind of can of worms that could have several
interpretations as per its use in the fiction we are discussing.
Phillip Greenlief
1075 Aileen Street Apt B
Oakland, CA 94608
510-501-7110
________________________________
From: Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net>
To: pynchon-l at waste.org
Sent: Wed, July 25, 2012 9:41:09 AM
Subject: Re: Back to AtD. Music of the Spheres-- Not
On 7/25/2012 8:19 AM, Mark Kohut wrote:
OK, all you plister musicians and the rest who know music better'n me,
which oughta be about
>all of you, or at least you know what you like as the saying goes and
>which might be apt as
>the guide for me to be wild in speculation about the next bit in
>AtD......p.940......
>
>p. 940.Lydian vs. Phyrgian modes.....Altho other medieval modes are
>represented, the Lydian is
>absent in Balkan villages now...."the interval which our awkwardly
>unflatted B makes with
>F was known to the ancients as 'the devil in the music'.....
>
>"they tend to favor the so-called Phrygian mode, quite common thru the
>region.".....[attribute[d] to
>Pythagoras, and may be traceable all the way back to Orpheus
>himself"......."In view, added Yashmeen,
>of the similarity if not identity, between Pythagorean and Orphic
>teachings"...
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lydian_mode
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrygian_mode
>
>http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pythagoras/
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orphism_%28religion)
>
>My gloss, one level of possible meaning, I say: TRP values the ancient
>wisdom of folk tradition(s) in general,
>even making sure we understand he respects the Volk of Deep Germany as
>he slashes Germans and their modern history
>in his works, so here, as the Balkans build to War, they have lost the
>medieval Lydian mode wherein the devil was
>
>"in the music', known and tangible (as God was to them) but then, the
>devil went underground [see below and elsewhere] and
>reemerged
>in the abstract....I am taken with TRP giving Yashmeen the connection
>between the Phrygian mode and Pythagoras, often
>called the first mathematician and "Orphic teachings" [unverifiable
>says wikpedia] which I will read to the disagreement of
>many as another slam at mathematics as an abstraction from 'real
>life', the folk life of all of us
>
>& also here another linking
>of the abstraction of religious beliefs [Orphism as example] with the
>other abstractions--the day-lit fictions-- punctured in AtD.
>
It sounds like the volk are still observing the taboo against the unflatted
B in the scale starting on F. So, to build your case, won't you have to
defend this superstitious behavior? In the eyes of Pynchon? Need some
clarification.
IMHO it's not a good idea to try to decide what Pynchon approves of and
doesn't. Not an absolute rule of course.
The whole scene does serve the purpose of getting Y and her party invited
along on the expedition to Thrace.
P
>http://www.3ammagazine.com/3am/please-allow-me-to-introduce-myself/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>http://www.3ammagazine.com/3am/please-allow-me-to-introduce-myself/
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