Back to AtD. Music of the Spheres-- Not

[Paul Mackin]

On 7/25/2012 1:59 PM, Phillip Greenlief wrote:
> i will just comment on the theoretical aspect of these musical 
> elements - you folks can interpret however you like.
>
> indeed, the lydian scale uses the sharp 4 (in this case, that's how 
> you have to think of it. you can't think of it as the flat 5, because 
> the perfect 5th is still a part of the scale - you can't have a scale 
> that has a b5 and a P5).
>
> if you are familiar with music and scales i am talking about a 
> diatonic (fancy name for *scale*) construct that goes like this: C, D, 
> E, F#, G, A, B, C  - that's a C major scale (that usually has no 
> sharps of flats) with a raised, augmented, or sharp 4 (so many terms!) 
> - it's called the 4 because it is the fourth step in the scale.
>
> despite the fact that this note (the #4 or b5) is a part of the scale, 
> it is actually thought of as a "bright" tonality - it is seen as 
> light, pretty, beautiful (stravinsky uses this scale in his 
> composition PASTORAL, a gorgeous little piece for woodwind quintet) 
> ... this is interesting, because the # 4 is the same note as the flat 
> 5 ... so the note has a kind of duality. some see it (if used in the 
> lydian scale) as pretty and beautiful - some see the note as evil 
> (indeed, during the renaissance the b5 was out of bounds - composers 
> could not use it - it was against all rules and laws of theory - 
> people actually thought it could summons the devil). of course, jazz 
> musicians, whom pynchon seems to admire, use it with relish.
>
> this note is also interesting to me because it sits at the very center 
> of the octave. the perfect 5th and perfect 4th were called "perfect" 
> back in the day because of their position in the overtone series 
> (gosh, this is going to get really complicated if i describe the 
> series - but the easiest way to describe the overtone series is that 
> there are a lot of vibrations that occur when a note is sounded - the 
> note you actually hear is called the Fundamental - but there are other 
> notes that are vibrating at the same time - but your ear is only able 
> to focus on the fundamental.
>
> anyway, if you look at the octave, the tritone (#4, b5) is dead 
> center. the other intervals are strong and ring clearly - if you have 
> a piano at your disposal, just place C and F at the same time, or C 
> and G at the same time and you'll see what i mean - because of their 
> position in the overtone series, they produce a very strong, grounded, 
> harmony.  the #4 or b5 has a lot of gravity to it, it's a kind of 
> fulcrum, if you like. again, if you have a piano, play C and F# and 
> the C above and see how it sounds. ....
>
> onward ...
>
> you also refer to the use of Phrygian scale in AtD - this scale is 
> quite different - there is nothing ambiguous about it. it is thought 
> of as a "darker" scale (this is the kind of nonsense adjectives used 
> by musicologists, don't shoot the messenger). you find this scale in 
> flamenco music and also in music from middle-europe - which makes 
> sense, yashmeen and that crew are traversing this area in AtD. you 
> play this scale and bingo - it is rife with cultural associations as 
> discussed in earlier posts.
>
> this scale is constructed differently - it is merely a natural minor 
> scale with a b2, or minor 2nd. if we think of C as our tonality, it 
> goes like this: C, Db, Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb, C ... it has the minor 3rd, 
> 6th and 7th that it inherited from the natural minor scale but also 
> has a flat 2nd. a great scale, kids!
>
> as i said, i think there is little ambiguity about the use of this 
> tonality. whereas, the lydian thing is kind of can of worms that could 
> have several interpretations as per its use in the fiction we are 
> discussing.

Thanks, Philip.  Good, thorough explanation.

Maybe you could comment on something else. if, in the Medieval Lydian,  
the #4 was often avoided  even though proper to the mode (the devil 
thing of the AtD passage),  does this mean that the unsharped 4 would 
also have to be avoided in order to keep the composition from dropping 
out of the mode.  In other words, what's the without which nothing to 
qualify for Lydian?

P
>
>
>
> Phillip Greenlief
> 1075 Aileen Street Apt B
> Oakland, CA 94608
> 510-501-7110
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net>
> *To:* pynchon-l at waste.org
> *Sent:* Wed, July 25, 2012 9:41:09 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Back to AtD. Music of the Spheres-- Not
>
> On 7/25/2012 8:19 AM, Mark Kohut wrote:
>> OK, all you plister musicians and the rest who know music better'n 
>> me, which oughta be about
>> all of you, or at least you know what you like as the saying goes and 
>> which might be apt as
>> the guide for me to be wild in speculation about the next bit in 
>> AtD......p.940......
>> p. 940.Lydian vs. Phyrgian modes.....Altho other medieval modes are 
>> represented, the Lydian is
>> absent in Balkan villages now...."the interval which our awkwardly 
>> unflatted B makes with
>> F was known to the ancients as 'the devil in the music'.....
>> "they tend to favor the so-called Phrygian mode, quite common thru 
>> the region.".....[attribute[d] to
>> Pythagoras, and may be traceable all the way back to Orpheus 
>> himself"......."In view, added Yashmeen,
>> of the similarity if not identity, between Pythagorean and Orphic 
>> teachings"...
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lydian_mode
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrygian_mode
>> http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pythagoras/
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orphism_%28religion)
>> My gloss, one level of possible meaning, I say: TRP values the 
>> ancient wisdom of folk tradition(s) in general,
>> even making sure we understand he respects the Volk of Deep Germany 
>> as he slashes Germans and their modern history
>> in his works, so here, as the Balkans build to War, they have lost 
>> the medieval Lydian mode wherein the devil was
>> "in the music', known and tangible (as God was to them) but then, the 
>> devil went underground [see below and elsewhere] and reemerged
>> in the abstract....I am taken with TRP giving Yashmeen the connection 
>> between the Phrygian mode and Pythagoras, often
>> called the first mathematician and "Orphic teachings" [unverifiable 
>> says wikpedia] which I will read to the disagreement of
>> many as another slam at mathematics as an abstraction from 'real 
>> life', the folk life of all of us
>> & also here another linking
>> of the abstraction of religious beliefs [Orphism as example] with the 
>> other abstractions--the day-lit fictions-- punctured in AtD.
>
> It sounds like the volk are still observing the taboo against the 
> unflatted B in the scale starting on F.  So, to build your case, won't 
> you have to defend this superstitious behavior?  In the eyes of 
> Pynchon?  Need some clarification.
>
> IMHO it's not a good idea to try to decide what Pynchon approves of 
> and doesn't.  Not an absolute rule of course.
>
> The whole scene does serve the purpose of getting Y and her party 
> invited along on the expedition to Thrace.
>
> P
>> http://www.3ammagazine.com/3am/please-allow-me-to-introduce-myself/
>> http://www.3ammagazine.com/3am/please-allow-me-to-introduce-myself/
>

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