Pynchon, books and readers
Paul Mackin
mackin.paul at verizon.net
Tue Jun 19 11:00:13 CDT 2012
On 6/19/2012 10:28 AM, Madeleine Maudlin wrote:
> What novel is /not/ rebarbative? Ask that guy to name one. Having
> said that, I find the sex in Rainbow intensely boring and rebarbative.
> Surely you would agree that complexity drives away popular demand? I
> remember one bit, one of the last things I read of it a few months
> ago, maybe last month, it was when Slothrop goes to a party in a
> zootsuit and a tank comes through the wall and Slothrop opens the top.
> There's a bit in there that as far as I could tell meant nothing
> (maybe it was vital), it was all one sentence, lasted a page, and was
> designed to be the most complex sentence in all of literature, one
> thing connected to another connected to another, etc. I loved it.
> Not that I retained any of it.
>
> What's you're ongoing work? Does Rainbow deal at all with
> future-gizmos? Seems like even sci-fi that takes place in the past
> has to deal to some extent with gizmos of the future.
On the one hand GR is too different to be a type or genus.
And yet people sometimes talk about other novels as being pynchonesque,
a desirable category for some though not for me. One Pynchon is enough.
Also, Pynchon, like Ray Bradbury on a lesser scale, is too good to be
generic anything.
Does the sf demographic accept GR unto its bosom? If so, do they think
it's good sf? Enough gizmos, Madeleine wonders. (talking about people
who go to conventions, etc.)
The p-list seems to sway a tiny bit into the sf demographic. Sex wise
certainly. We ARE much older, and less nerdy. An above average number
of us know and respect science fiction. Same for comic books. I feel as
excluded here as on pop music (since the 60s, say)
I too would like to know more about Matthew's ongoing work.
P
>
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 9:01 AM, Matthew Cissell <macissell at yahoo.es
> <mailto:macissell at yahoo.es>> wrote:
>
> Hey P-listers
>
> Forgive me if this has come up before. Are many of you familiar
> with "The History of Science Fiction" by Adam Roberts? Its one of
> the books I'm chipping away at. In chapter 13, Prose Science
> Fiction 1970's - 1990's, he gets around to TP. First, he writes
> that GR, "has a plausible claim to be the greatest SF novel of the
> 1970's." Granted, Roberts does have a very wide definition of SF,
> but how many of you would call it SF?
>
> Second, and this is where he really got my attention, he writes of
> GR that "it is too long, too complex, rebarbative and obscene ever
> to have enjoyed popular success (that it is still in print today
> is almost cetainly because universities require their students to
> buy it)."
>
> The last bit is so speculative it hurts. Does he have any numbers
> about book sales or university courses? This is the kind of
> unfounded claim that I address in my ongoing work. I think one
> would find that CoL49 is more often included in sylabi at
> universities.
>
> Mark, your mail is part of the angle missing from my field of
> vision. When will you provide a downloadable version of your
> knowledge and experience related to publishing?
>
> ciao
> mc otis
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com <mailto:markekohut at yahoo.com>>
> To: Prashant Kumar <p.kumar at physics.usyd.edu.au
> <mailto:p.kumar at physics.usyd.edu.au>>
> Cc: pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org <mailto:pynchon-l at waste.org>>
> Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 9:32 PM
> Subject: Re: Pynchon eBook Trailer
>
>
> In filling in all around Pynchon, this would be an interesting
> exercise, getting and using ALL the facts and educated guesses
> one could get........I kinda wish I had time.........
>
> But, short answers to provide some framework.....Writers get
> "advances"--an upfront loan paid back by royalty deductions later---
> upon which to live while they write their books. TRP had to get
> these, and especially of some liveable-on size after Crying of Lot
> 49..
> We know by hearsay that he wrote the story that became Lot 49
> because he 'needed' money, so royalties from V. (and any initial
> advance
> for GR--if there was one) might have entropied his worklife. (is
> this a psychological 'objective correlative" for his early concern
> with entropy?
> One might also remember how he was said to be always running in
> Positively Fourth Street...'fearing time was running out"? )
>
> Anyway, he broke through into, perhaps, enough sales to live on
> when Lot 49 was published in paperback. He went wide. Lot 49 was
> many readers' intro into his work and soon enough the Academy was
> assigning it so sales continued and grew.
>
> Then GR was a legitimate NYTimes bestseller.....(minimum 50,00
> sold, very minimum....surely over 100, 000, 200,000 then....and
> earlier ones picked up again.....)
>
> And he got grants......a macArthur when, 80s sometime)...a
> Guggenheim earlier?........
>
> Bigger advances for later works, I'm sure...(aspect of book
> accounting not much known: an author can sometimes NOT sell
> enoough copies
> to earn the royalties that pay back the amount they were advanced
> YET.....
>
> the publishing company still can make nice money on the sales
> after deducting losses for unclaimed advances.....(work it out
> sometime w
> made-up amounts....)
>
> And, with Pynchon, unlike any flash in pan, literary or purely
> commercialm he has always been in print so is always earn ing some
> royalties...
>
> i would essay this too-quick guess.....Today, 2012.....TRP sells
> maybe 5,000 paperback copies of all his books except GR and Lot 49....
> (and, yes, that is a reductive generlaized number and I'll bet
> some plisters might want to speculate on the varying ongoing sales
> of the various novels)
> I'd say 10,000 GR a year....and over 20,000 Lot 49 a year........
>
> so, do some math....
>
> And flame me for hasty stupidities......
>
> From: Prashant Kumar <p.kumar at physics.usyd.edu.au
> <mailto:p.kumar at physics.usyd.edu.au>>
> To: Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com <mailto:markekohut at yahoo.com>>
> Cc: Tyler Wilson <tbsqrd at hotmail.com <mailto:tbsqrd at hotmail.com>>;
> P-list <pynchon-l at waste.org <mailto:pynchon-l at waste.org>>;
> "against.the.dave at gmail.com <mailto:against.the.dave at gmail.com>"
> <against.the.dave at gmail.com <mailto:against.the.dave at gmail.com>>
> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 10:36 PM
> Subject: Re: Pynchon eBook Trailer
>
>
> Stupid follow up question (it was me who asked the original): how
> does that translate into average yearly income?
>
>
> 'cos if we imagine (entirely for argument) that TRP gets 15% on
> books at $30 ea. and 100,000 (I have no idea whether this is a
> realistic figure) sales for the lifetime of a book, say 20 years,
> then that's a grad student's stipend of $22,500 p.a.
>
> On 16 June 2012 04:30, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com
> <mailto:markekohut at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> I don't know 'nothin, Tyler, but if I have time i may try to get
> some answers...
> >
> >but your post remeinded me that I wanted to answer the post of
> whoever asked
> >what a writer like Pynchon earns.........
> >
> >And the answer for most writers' printed books is 8 to 15%
> royaltes--from list price---per sale.
> >A writer loses no royalties when one buys new from amazon, and
> such.....(some exception to that
> >if the publisher has terms regarding lower roylaties if they have
> to sell at standard wholesale (and higher--what are called
> 'special sales") prices.)
> >
> >There are often bonueses for hitting bestsller lists---almost
> always the NYT...
> >
> >TRP surely had contracts at 15% after GR....earlier ones could
> have been lower--10--12.5%
> >but have surely been renegotiated since........
> >
> >Writers typically get 50% of all
> subrights deals.........paperback license, movie rights, Czech
> editions, etc.)
> >
> >One aspect of p's ebook deal that some in the industry wonder
> about is Why/How did penguin get all of them?
> >Deals?...why din't they--harper, no slouches---fight to keep the
> ones they 'own"?
> >
> >Ms. Jackson and Thomas obviously wanted Penguin for all..........
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Tyler Wilson <tbsqrd at hotmail.com <mailto:tbsqrd at hotmail.com>>
> >To: P-list <pynchon-l at waste.org <mailto:pynchon-l at waste.org>>
> >Cc: against.the.dave at gmail.com <mailto:against.the.dave at gmail.com>
> >Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 12:18 PM
> >Subject: RE: Pynchon eBook Trailer
> >
> >
> >
> >Any of you folks know anything about--or seen before--the artwork
> in P's eBook trailer representing Slow Learner?: the bird, the
> train, the pyramid... I have never seen those graphics, and it
> seems I would have by now, my not-quite-healthy interest long in
> the running. I've a distant recollection of reading that he did
> not at all care for the cover art of the
> Little Brown first edition. (Can anyone confirm this?) So perhaps
> these graphics were created for the trailer instead?
> >Can anyone school me?
> >With all my gratitude,--T
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: against.the.dave at gmail.com
> <mailto:against.the.dave at gmail.com>
> >> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 012 2::5::8 -500<
> >> Subject: Re: Pynchon eBook Trailer
> >> To: scuffling at gmail.com <mailto:scuffling at gmail.com>
> >> CC: pynchon-l at waste.org <mailto:pynchon-l at waste.org>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jun 3,, 012 at ::7 AM, Henry M <scuffling at gmail.com
> <mailto:scuffling at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> http://greg.org/archive/012//6//2//thomas_pynchons_e-book_trailer.html
> >> > greg.org <http://greg.org>: the making of: Thomas Pynchon's
> e-Book Trailer
> >> > By greg
> >> > Thomas Pynchon's e-Book Trailer. Four words that I, for one,
> ever expected
> >> > to type in this sequence, but here we are. After Long Resistance,
> >> > Pynchon Allows Novels to Be Sold as E-Books [nyt] Thomas
> Pynchon on
> >> > Kindle someday,
> >> > but not yet ..
> >>
> >> Thomas Pynchon - The Complete Collection - eBooks
> >>
> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urNQSSEEBGA
> >
>
>
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