review of Zizek ideas in NY review of books

[Matthew Cissell]

Well, I won't venture forth with my ideas on what an intellectual is or the Intellectual class. The subject of where and how these agents are produced is more interesting. The cases of the U.S and various European countries are I think rather different. Bare in mind I'm no specialist on the subject.

I once heard Chomsky say that he got a lot from an uncle that (I think) had a newsstand that was frequented by other emigres who talked about things e.g communism, etc. Obviously that wasn't the route of Buckley (last 'intellectual' of the right) or many European intellectuals.

One thing I have noticed is that here you often have one big state administrated test (A levels in Brit, Selectividad in Spain, and similar tests in other countries. In the U.S we have either the ACT or SAT. All these tests are very determinative (they all have grades and evaluations from beginning to end). However, until recently the U.S was the more socially flexible, one could have working class parents and still arrive to some high place. As you said, nowadays kids with good grades go to biz school, few people with intellectual potential want to focus it on fields related to the humanities. They also don't go for science or math, check the PhD's. Better to be the cat that owns the lab hiring and firing Phdudes.

The U.S. has a fairly lengthy record of anti-intellectualism - philosophers and poets do not have the same place in U.S culture as in Europe. But even if Europe does still have intellectuals, what good has it done them? Have they avoided an economic nightmare? Have they stopped atrocities like Srebreinca before they happened? have they produced a silicon valley? Have they stomped out fascism? the answer is clear.

Am I an intellectual? Many back home might say something like that, but they read very little. (I suspect that for many people most folks on this list serve would qualify as intellectuals, though I wouldn't dare to consider the categories or ratings.) Perhaps, in later years with a fine white pate I might play the role, but I would only be passing. As for something on T.V, well I'm afraid Keith is right: Who would watch it? 

But thanks, Paul, it was very nice of you to say that.

________________________________
From: Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net>
To: pynchon-l at waste.org 
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: review of Zizek ideas in NY review of books


On 6/23/2012 5:06 AM, Matthew Cissell wrote:

Me? Intellectual class? Nah, mediocre grades kept me out. I might fit in with the church of the subgenius, but ahm not shur 'bout the dawgma. Ah always figured the dawgma was a bitch.
>
>
>Yeh, i guess Z gettin the Rob treatment does seem fitting.
Einstein had mediocre grades I think I might possibly had read
    somewhere.

The intellectual class would be people who think deep thoughts about
    things that don't necessariy relate to defense budgets. America
    doesn't have such people anymore.  Back when it did they went to
    CCNY and then on to Columbia, Harvard or U. of Chicago. As for
    grades, their mothers had told them don't bother to bring your
    report card home if it has anything less than A pluses on it. Today,
    good grades get you into computer science or biz school.  Europe
    still has intellectuals.  They go to places like Ecole Normale
    Superieure .  Do they even bother to have grades in such exulted
    climes  (you have to pass tests to get in I suppose).  If you're
    brilliant, everyone picks up on it quickly and thereafter you can
    write your own ticket--in that small but arguably important world at
    least.

Anyway, Matthew, if you're NOT one, you could play one on
    television.


P






>
>cheers
>mc
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>
>________________________________
> From: Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net>
>To: pynchon-l at waste.org 
>Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 6:48 PM
>Subject: Re: review of Zizek ideas in NY review of books
> 
>On 6/22/2012 12:01 PM, Matthew Cissell wrote:
>> Let me follow on your analogy but with a twist.
            Diseases do not create vaccines, people do in response to
            disease. In the same way criminals do not produce criminal
            law (except maybe in the IL state legislature and some other
            failing nation states), people produce laws to deal with
            criminal behaviour. So I agree that Z not only produces
            confusion and disbelief (there agreement ends), he produces
            a comfortable life for himself. "...must be profoundly
            shocking to the Intellectual Class", I don't know. I suspect
            I don't belong to that group. Read the bit in Lingua Franca
            and you will find something shocking, but mabye that has
            something to do with my work ethic.
>>
>> Go back to square one? The earth has been reset a
            couple of times but that is the type of hard boot that we
            don't want. Year one? That's been tried. The Kmer Rouge is
            somehow admirable for Zizek (proof the guy has his head too
            far up his own intellectual ass)? The kind of radical
            quasi-messianic break that Z wants is not for me, those
            things always go wrong. He should study more history. Rapid
            radical change brings bad consequences from the French
            Revolution to Iraq regime change. When will we learn? This
            big boat that we are all in takes a long time to change
            course. You can free slaves, and get rid of Jim Crow laws,
            and that's a good start, but it will not solve racism
            suddenly. Zizek wants a quick fix written in blood on the
            books of history (having the picture of Stalin above the bed
            is idiotic for being a childish shock factor or for sincere
            belief). the irony is that in some purge Z would probably
            get the Robespierre treatment.
>>
>>
>> It's not for me to tell people what to think, but when
            I see the emperor has no clothes I speak up.
>>
>> not so radical mc
>>
>> p.s. I love that the membership for the Zizek journal
            is through Facebook. What would Foucault say?
>
>Good reply, Matthew.  Are you sure you're not a member of
            the 
>Intellectual Class?
>
>Still, I like it that, in my hyperbolic scenario, Z is the
            messenger 
>(bearer) of ill tidings who gets killed.
>
>Revolutionary justice.
>
>P
>
>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net>
>> To: pynchon-l at waste.org
>> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 5:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: review of Zizek ideas in NY review of
            books
>>
>>
>> On 6/22/2012 5:43 AM, Matthew Cissell wrote:
>>
>> I thought I had better look up the citation for what I
            wrote. If you want to read for yourself check Lingua Franca
            Oct 1998 "Enjoy Your Zizek"
>>> I guess it wasn't so long ago.
>>>
>>>
>> Isn't Zizek a necessary and useful worker in the fields
            of Late
>>      Capitalism.  Just as criminals produce not only
            crime but also
>>      criminal law, Zizek produces not only confusion
            and disbelief  but .
>>      . . . well, something I probably don't really GET
            exactly, but do
>>      sense  must be profoundly shocking to the
            Intellectual Class. (the
>>      bourgeoisie is beyond shock) Little gems like Marx
            wasn't radical
>>      enough and Bush wasn't imperialist enough are only
            a start. Maybe
>>      it's time to go back to square one and start all
            over. Get a new
>>      paradigm, or something.
>>
>> Hopefully
>>
>> P
>>
>>
>>
>> mc otis
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Prashant Kumar <siva.prashant.kumar at gmail.com>
>>> To: Matthew Cissell <macissell at yahoo.es>
>>> Cc: "pynchon-l at waste.org" <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 9:36 AM
>>> Subject: Re: review of Zizek ideas in NY review of
            books
>>>
>>>
>>> Wow and here I was about to defend him! I can never
            bring myself to trust people who treat students badly. Such
            a concerted attempt to quash discussion is shameful, and
            invites obvious questions.
>>>
>>>
>>> Prashant
>>>
>>> On Friday, 22 June 2012, Matthew Cissell wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for sending this along, Paul. The piece is
            more measured than the one that came up not long ago (by one
            Johann Hari) but it still hits Z hard, which he deserves.
>>>>
>>>> I read an article about 2 decades ago about Z.
            He was very open about being a scoundrel. It was the 90's
            and he started to be a big name (riding that cool theory
            wave) so he was in demand. This got him an invitation to
            teach at I forget which Uni in the US. He demanded a
            position for his wife as I recall - ok, fair enough. He
            would only teach one class (i don't think pay was mentioned,
            but is it necessary?) and they would provide him with
            accomodation. So far just a tough negotiator. Now the good
            part.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For the class he told his students that they
            didn't have to write anything, but if they did want him to
            evaluate their work, he would (imagine how this appeals to
            the slothful and intimidates the uncertain - genius). IN the
            case that someone wanted to talk to him they could only come
            in certain hours (understandable and standard) but they
            would have to come with their queries  and talking points
            written out (this avoids loose rambling students, so i can
            understand) and they would have to sign up on the list on
            his door. In the article he admitted to filling the list
            with false students names so that the others couldn't get
            in. I was shocked when I read that. It still sounds
            extremely low, even with  some years of teaching experience.
            I don't think I could bring myself to do that. It was then
            that I suspected that the man was running one on people who
            were ready to get taken in.
>>>> 200 yrs later we still discuss Hegel, 100 yrs
            later we still read and talk about Joyce. I think we all
            know that no one will be studying Dan Brown in 100 yrs. And
            Zizek? What will be his legacy?
>>>> That jazzy stuff sure sells to some, but long
            ago I began to think that the sparks and obfuscation were
            covering something up.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> mc otis - still damn sick
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>>>> To: Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net>
>>>> Cc: "pynchon-l at waste.org" <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 5:50 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: review of Zizek ideas in NY review
            of books
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Don't know Mr Z, but don't think I want to.
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, June 21, 2012, Paul Mackin
>>                              wrote:
>>>> http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/jul/12/violent-visions-slavoj-zizek/?page=2
>>>>> I hope this works without a subscription
>>                                but if not go to their
            web site nybooks.com
>>>>
>>>
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